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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

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131–140 of 336 posts

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#131
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say China is unstable? The US is talking about starting a war, had government shutdown issues recently, and has a president that is abrasive on foreign affairs. UK is dealing with brexit. China may have the issue with HK recently, but to an outsider, they look more stable. Of course, something like Japan or Australia seems better, but China isn't a terrible choice.

> Why do you say China is unstable? It's now a dictatorship, with a single man ruling for life. The history of dictatorships shows, for fundamental reasons, stability in the short term and chaos in the medium. (The fundamental reasons include not being able to back away from bad decisions, eliminating competent rivals, and as a result bumbling into crises that seem to escalate themselves.)

>It's now a dictatorship, with a single man ruling for life.

This is a cartoon take on China. Yes, China is led by a fairly Leninist party structure in nominal terms, but in terms of management China is relatively decentralised. Politically but in particular fiscally regional and local authorities manage day-to-day operations with significant leeway depending on the region, anything else would be unfeasible in a country with 1.4 billion people.

The bureaucratic nature of the Chinese state (which is really thousands of years old) makes comparisons to Western strongman dictatorships impossible. There's a reason the communist state has survived Mao, market reforms under Deng and now Xi, and it's not because it's run by some big brother figure who gets assassinated and then everything collapses.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#132

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

> Macbook Pros have passed their peak As someone who has used a number of Mac(book)s for years, I agree with this general (or a vocal minority's) consensus. It's a beautiful machine: great OS, hardware integration is (mostly) top notch, and a lot of pro-grade hard/software for multimedia production are only available on the Mac. And yet, the 2013 Macbook Pro (maxed out beyond recommended specs) is the last Apple-buil…

They need to fix a few things (mostly on the Macbook Pro) and drop their prices somewhat, which isn't a crazy thing to hope for since they did it pretty often not that long ago, sometimes even while announcing an upgrade. I still think their iOS device prices are fairly decent for what you get, but their Mac hardware pricing's gone way out of wack in the last 3ish years.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#133

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

There is next to none long term thinking by the American govt or corporations, period. That’s expected from publicly traded companies, and when those companies run the country too, well...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#134
I honestly think the China IP rip off is overblown, and this is coming from someone who works there often. Also, if open source software has demonstrated, sequestering IP behind patents is a hindrance to society.

And your critique about civil rights abuses could equally be leveled against the US itself. After all, we put several immigrant children in concentration camps on the daily because they just want to move to the US.

It could be argued that we've already given up so much manufacturing to foreign entities that trying to get it back is just too costly for most businesses to handle.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#135
post #72

"More than 80% of the workers working across three assembly lines were contract employees paid minimum wage for eight-hour workday...when their shift ended, many walked off the job, he said—even if the lines were still running." Of course they did, that's what anyone in that situation would do surely? Are they supposed to work for below minimum wage because the company can't organise shift changeover properly?

There is a very good chance that those workers would have been fired had they gotten overtime so they may have been forced by management to do that.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#136

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I hate to dilute the conversation and the point you're trying to make, but I've had absolutely no luck grasping what this 'woke' meme is.

Something about liberals finally understanding what conservatives have been saying all along?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#137
post #34
post #4

I wonder how predicted sales of the cheese grater are going? EDIT: I didn't even know it wasn't for sale yet, whoops, a lot of hype though...

I would imagine the sales should be pretty successful. $6k is still in the realm of 1 to 3 months earnings for many folks. Even I'm tempted.

Success is obviously a relative thing.

I would suggest that any professional scenario that uses macOS for client-driven computationally intensive tasks (rendering video being the obvious example), the new Pro will be a no-brainer. Huge step up in maximum CPU/GPU throughput.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was controversial, I think your statement that companies not having any chance of surviving due to stepping on human rights issues is flatly and verifiably wrong. That's evidenced by my second point that the vast majority of the most powerful corporations on Earth can and do infringe on said rights, and have done so for quite some time. > But at the same time, western companies send their manufacturin…

I think it's been a misunderstanding, because I agree with what you just said.

> A company that prioritizes human rights at the expense of profit, is a company that has no chance of survival in our political or economic environment

> Corporations need consumers so they cannot simply "run afoul of basic human rights"

>>Consumers have proven that they are willing to let such things slide to maintain their own convenience time and time again, your example included.

The bottom statement is incompatible with the first two. You state that companies will not survive if they do such things. You back that up saying that consumers are them mechanism that keeps them from surviving. My statement directly refutes that.

Also, if you don't mind, could you make a record of what was edited in the original post? Ninja edits aren't usually looked on well here on HN.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#139
Apple and Samsung already exploit slave labor indirectly throughout the entire supply chain from sulphur mining, rare earth elements mining in the ocean and final assembly. Depending on China might be a stupid move if it suddenly decides to enact sanctions to harm the US economically... it would be a huge hit domestically but it might be necessary for a pretext to war (if foreign relations policies change).

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you say China is unstable? It's now a dictatorship, with a single man ruling for life. The history of dictatorships shows, for fundamental reasons, stability in the short term and chaos in the medium. (The fundamental reasons include not being able to back away from bad decisions, eliminating competent rivals, and as a result bumbling into crises that seem to escalate themselves.)

>It's now a dictatorship, with a single man ruling for life. This is a cartoon take on China. Yes, China is led by a fairly Leninist party structure in nominal terms, but in terms of management China is relatively decentralised. Politically but in particular fiscally regional and local authorities manage day-to-day operations with significant leeway depending on the region, anything else would be unfeasible in a coun…

I noticed you avoided mentioning at all Xi's power grab and now dictatorial status.
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