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Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

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Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#81

Post by djdidf »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #55
mynameishere wrote: post #8

The media skews everything. Almost every TV show has a homosexual character, a black computer programmer, and an ass-kicking female martial arts expert. Hollywood has to parade its ideals, after all. And to some extent, it's showing you how urban sophisticates view their own world, amplifying the same skew. I remember some really old poll from a NYC high school (decades ago) in which the students estimated the Jewish…

Certainly 18% of TV characters aren't creationist, or addicted to painkillers.

I guess your affirming the OPs point.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#82

Post by djdidf »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #59
djdidf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your an urbanite you have a huge observational bias simply if you accept that rural homosexuals are more likely to migrate to the city. Reason for the migration include less discrimination, but also higher concentration (making hooking up easier). Therefore your perceived rate of homosexuality would be grater. For what it’s worth the self reported rate of 5 percent is the same when I first cared to look it up, abo…

I dislike to come across as overly sensitive, but I dislike how clinical sounding "homosexual" is. Just say gay people or LGBT. It isn't a condition. The DSM was wrong for a long period of time.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but “gay” sounds more offensive to me (e.g. “the gays” or “that’s gay”) and, ironically, euphemistic. LGBTQ sounds clinical (it’s an abbreviation!) and only half the letters relevant here.

Homosexuality is the most precise word (literally same-sexuality) to denote LG and DSM is hardly the originator of the word (the DSM was, is, and always will be, a mess. But that’s another issue).

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#83

Post by djdidf »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #65
lonelappde wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBT doesn't mean homosexual. Gay doesn't mean homosexual. Homosexual means LG. Scientific terms are not value judgements. Don't worry about how you come across, worry about how you are.

To be fair, I think it can be difficult to appreciate how it sounds if you aren't LGBT. If you're straight, you haven't been exposed to being demoralized because of your sexual orientation. I understand the perfectly valid scientific use of it-- I'm just saying that sometimes people weaponize it. When you come across anti-gay rhetoric, it almost never uses the word 'gay'. It has phrases like "the homosexual agenda".…

I hear “gay agenda” just as often, not to mention it was by far the more common high school taunt.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#84

Post by dagw »

mikedilger wrote: post #74
trackofalljades wrote: post #3

Is it possible that what you're seeing in this data is less about inaccuracy and more about how comfortably out people are? It says the estimates skew greater for younger people and women responding. Well are younger people and women more likely to know which of their friends are LGBT, because of a host of societal reasons that tend to influence men or older folks to wall off their feelings and communicate less about…

The 30% figures others have mentioned seem high to me (as in, impossibly so). I left the US in 2005. My gay friends and many in the gay community in S.F. estimated amongst themselves at the time that about 10% of people were gay or lesbian, while the general public estimates were more like 4%. They estimated higher because they knew people who were not out of the closet. But even the gay community didn't think it so…

The debate is really down to who 'counts' as gay. Kinsey (who really pioneered this work), for example, included everybody who had ever had a consensual same sex sexual encounter or who regularly had same sex fantasies, no matter how they self identified.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#85

Post by 0815test »

BorRagnarok wrote: post #76

That must be because of the over promotion of LGBT then. Also look at this: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-a... "Young people are growing less tolerant of LGBTQ individuals, ... , a survey released Monday shows." Because the promotion and attention seeking is everywhere, people think it's everywhere. That's why we're starting to see it backfiring now. And, lots of parents just don't want t…

Yes, it's interesting that the overestimate seems to be occurring on both sides. If more people realized just how small the whole LGBTQQetc. minority is, attitudes around these issues would be a lot more relaxed.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#86

Post by 0815test »

sgentle wrote: post #69
codingslave wrote: post #6

If you look at pride month and the level of marketing and news associated with it, one would estimate that the gay population is huge. Nearly every major corporation on linkedin has a rainbow logo, my uber the other day showed their ride path as a rainbow. The level of influence that LGBTQ currently has in the American mind share far outsizes their population, even now I am worried my account will be banned for menti…

I would be jaw-on-the-floor shocked if you were banned for your comment, and I think the suggestion otherwise gives your ideas a "too hot for HN" cachet that they haven't earned. There is no evil empire hunting down the renegade free-thinkers who dare to say that LGBT activism is disproportionately influential. If anything, that's the whole point. "We're here, we're queer" isn't just a catchy rhyme, it's a statement…

> Well, I can probably name a bunch of groups that you aren't forced to think about

Really? So why not name them in the first place? This whole idea that mistreatment of tiny, hidden, unrepresented minorities that aren't actively harming anyone else might somehow be "justified" goes against everything that this country was founded for.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#87

Post by Grue3 »

djdidf wrote: post #79
Grue3 wrote: post #78

Alternative headline: Gallup greatly underestimates US Gay Population.

Sure, but you better have research to back it up. Gallup has theirs. Honestly I don’t know why 5% is controversial. It’s one in twenty. 25% would be one in four. Do you really know one in four homosexuals unless you live in, say, San Fran?

Well, sexuality is a spectrum. The exact number of gay people depends on what is defined as a cut-off. It seems reasonable to me that at least 1 in 4 people wouldn't be 100% straight.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#88

Post by areyousure »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #65
lonelappde wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBT doesn't mean homosexual. Gay doesn't mean homosexual. Homosexual means LG. Scientific terms are not value judgements. Don't worry about how you come across, worry about how you are.

To be fair, I think it can be difficult to appreciate how it sounds if you aren't LGBT. If you're straight, you haven't been exposed to being demoralized because of your sexual orientation. I understand the perfectly valid scientific use of it-- I'm just saying that sometimes people weaponize it. When you come across anti-gay rhetoric, it almost never uses the word 'gay'. It has phrases like "the homosexual agenda".…

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=gay%20agen...

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#89

Post by m0llusk »

BorRagnarok wrote: post #76

That must be because of the over promotion of LGBT then. Also look at this: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-a... "Young people are growing less tolerant of LGBTQ individuals, ... , a survey released Monday shows." Because the promotion and attention seeking is everywhere, people think it's everywhere. That's why we're starting to see it backfiring now. And, lots of parents just don't want t…

As a gay person I don't see that at all. My sexuality has always been a major hot button such that as a boring, tech-obsessed geek who mostly keeps to himself my presence has been a major source of gossip in my home town, at school, at the places I have worked, and in the urban neighborhoods where I have lived.

As far as I can tell this is mostly related to the psychological mechanism of Altruistic Punishment. Calling someone out on their perceived flaws generates an immediate boost in social status and provides opportunities for bonding. Whether this is the mechanism or not, it is an undeniable fact that my being gay has been a major issue for me in essentially every social context.

When I march in Pride Parades or insist on equal insurance coverage at work this is not me promoting myself or my homosexuality at all. This is me attempting defend myself from the crushing an inescapable force of homophobia in this culture. If people would stop promoting their issues with homosexuality then none of this would be necessary. I am just a person with the same issues and needs as everyone else. It is rampant homophobia that does the most to promote homosexuality as an issue and subject for discussion.

Re: Americans Greatly Overestimate U.S. Gay Population

#90

Post by 0815test »

m0llusk wrote: post #89
BorRagnarok wrote: post #76

That must be because of the over promotion of LGBT then. Also look at this: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-a... "Young people are growing less tolerant of LGBTQ individuals, ... , a survey released Monday shows." Because the promotion and attention seeking is everywhere, people think it's everywhere. That's why we're starting to see it backfiring now. And, lots of parents just don't want t…

As a gay person I don't see that at all. My sexuality has always been a major hot button such that as a boring, tech-obsessed geek who mostly keeps to himself my presence has been a major source of gossip in my home town, at school, at the places I have worked, and in the urban neighborhoods where I have lived. As far as I can tell this is mostly related to the psychological mechanism of Altruistic Punishment. Callin…

> Calling someone out on their perceived flaws generates an immediate boost in social status and provides opportunities for bonding.

The important part here is 'perceived flaws'. The whole dynamic you're pointing at is one where people will virtue-signal and pretend to be "altruistic punishers", in order to abuse/bully someone that they hate for other, concealed reasons - often, this is an inflated sense of self-worth or status that the targeted person is threatening in some way. The abuse is just as likely to involve allegations of, e.g. homophobia as homosexuality! These things are simply immaterial to the deeper facts of what's going on. Most often, others will go along with the thinly-veiled bullying simply out of habit, or as a ploy to engage in their own signaling and raise their status in the surrounding community.

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