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“The books will stop working.”

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Re: “The books will stop working.”

#341
post #7

This is why DRM isn't just anti-consumer, it's also morally evil using the same logic that says libraries are a good thing. This is also why I buy games on gog.com instead of steam if they both have them.

Morally evil? They’re giving full refunds on the books.

This type of hyperbole makes it hard to take anti-DRM arguments seriously. “It’s a less desirable technology choice” feels more like the right level of angst IMO.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#342
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fine to have an opinion on how things should be, but some of your assertions are not based on facts. >Virtually all major DRM-"protected" works are available on thepiratebay shortly after release. Sometimes before release. "Virtually all Server OSs get hacked/have had security bugs. Nobody should use them to host or store anything." All you're saying is that DRM isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect, and it isn't exa…

>All you're saying is that DRM isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect, and it isn't exactly a revelation. DRM and servers are fundamentally different in that securing a server is an achievable goal. There is nothing fundamental that stops you from exposing an interface without any holes in it, even if it's quite hard. DRM is the polar opposite. Where servers are physically isolated from attackers in a manner that allows f…

Breaking into the data center is NOT outside of the threat model. We spend considerable amount of time detailing what can be done With physical access and various levels of physical access (for example, can I open the box versus being at the terminal vs having access to ports).

If you’re not doing that with your data centers then you are not even close to doing security right. And if you think it is close to feasible to completely lock down a server then you’re probably not being realistic.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#343
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found a solution to piracy that doesn't involve DRM? What was its success rate? I'm sure the publishers would love to switch to a better system if it exists.

Apple, Inc. did - they sell all of their music without DRM for the last, like, 10 years. Meanwhile the music industry is alive and well. The key is convenience. When it's convenient to buy, people buy.

Don’t forget IP laws. The threat of lawsuits is larger than the benefit of free music.

DRM is a means of protecting IP by technical means. When legal means are more effective then DRM isn’t necessary.

If you take the legal recourse off the table then I think free Napster like services proliferate.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#344
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, people all over my neighborhood have put considerable effort into building awesome tiny sharing libraries. Perhaps without the issue being "solved" we'd see even more and varied institutions formulate organically. So yes, I can imagine, but who knows whose imagination is closer to "alternative reality"?

Wouldn't the small sharing libraries also be at risk under a system with more power held by copyright owners?

Insofar as copyright owners are empowered by the system currently in place (e.g. DMCA) a system with less authoritarian power available to lobbyists may have the exact opposite effect. Same caveats as above apply.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#345
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, people all over my neighborhood have put considerable effort into building awesome tiny sharing libraries. Perhaps without the issue being "solved" we'd see even more and varied institutions formulate organically. So yes, I can imagine, but who knows whose imagination is closer to "alternative reality"?

Do you use these libraries? I see them around from time to time, but I've never been tempted to borrow from them. Usually there's nothing more than a random selection of popular novels from the last 20 years.

I wasn't really trying to make a qualitative point, but to that notion I have had considerable trouble in some public libraries as well.

The first memory I have of a library was in school where I wanted desperately to find out how one "writes" software. After lots of probably very annoying begging, I was given a book on either COBOL or FORTRAN from the ~60s. It wasn't super helpful.

The last book I borrowed (Alan Cooper's The Inmates are Running the Asylum on UX design, which I found compelling) was lost after I dropped it in the bin. I was fined $104, and upon contacting them was given customer service rivaling comcast's. Until I pay that ridiculous cost I can't borrow from any city library, and can't get a card anywhere else that I'm not a resident. So for me, the tiny libraries are already way over a very low bar.

I've had some generally good experiences, too, but nothing that's convinced me that the current model is either the only way or the best way.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#346

Every piece of DRM'd content will end up like this. Every book, movie, show, album, and game will be dead in a few decades (or sooner) if it relies on some company maintaining it's servers. It's good that there's alternatives, but it seems like the alternatives are slowly diminishing.

Take this with a grain of salt, but Steam support says there are "measures in place" to ensure users have access to DRM'd games when steam dies [0]. (Not to mention that it's trivially easy to remove Steam DRM with existing tools) https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18mzcn/i_asked_steam...

Unfortunately we'll have to see it to truly believe it. I don't doubt Valve would do that, but it's easy to say that now.

Luckily, we still have torrents to help backup old games.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that DRM is a solution to piracy? If anything, DRM is a big driver for piracy, and its success rate is near zero. Virtually all major DRM-"protected" works are available on thepiratebay shortly after release. Sometimes before release. The "better solution" is to treat your customers with respect and let them own their bought goods. Gog.com is a good example here, in my opinion. What definitely doesn'…

Its fine to have an opinion on how things should be, but some of your assertions are not based on facts. >Virtually all major DRM-"protected" works are available on thepiratebay shortly after release. Sometimes before release. "Virtually all Server OSs get hacked/have had security bugs. Nobody should use them to host or store anything." All you're saying is that DRM isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect, and it isn't exa…

> "Virtually all Server OSs get hacked/have had security bugs. Nobody should use them to host or store anything."

Your comparison is flawed. Most server installations are not broken into during their lifetime. But it only takes one copy of a movie getting onto thepiratebay to make it accessible to everyone who wants it. So if DRM cannot prevent every attempt at circumvention, it's useless and can only serve to hinder legitimate use of the product.

> If we accept your premise that DRM == disrespecting customers, then you'll have to account for why people are still selling stuff with DRM, and continuing to make millions and millions of dollars.

No, I don't. The fact that some people accept the deal doesn't prove that there's nothing wrong with it. In this case, the seller unilaterally went back on the deal without the customers being involved at all.

I'm not a DRM fanatic and I do use DRM services on a daily basis. But if a vendor pulls a trick like in the OP, they can't then turn around and ask why some potential customers are pirating the product instead. Their addition of DRM has made the service less convenient than piracy. Remember, it's only your legitimate paying customers who have to deal with your DRM. The pirated version has no DRM.

> The success of DRM'd products refutes your claim, entirely.

The purpose of DRM is to prevent piracy. This has mostly been a failure.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search for DeDRM plugin for calibre. There's several ways to do it. If you have a physical kindle, you can download the books from your amazon account, and plug the serial number of your kindle into DeDRM. If you have the Kindle for PC or Mac app, DeDRM can pick up the relevent keys. I recommend getting the books in the AWZ3 format rather than KFX.

I couldn't make the desktop application ripping mechanic work. Apparently you need to download an ancient version which still uses AWZ3 since KFX wasn't support. I got lucky since I had an old gen one kindle on my account so I was able to download the files from my account portal but I think I would've been out of luck otherwise.

Ah yes,I have kindle keyboard (it won't die!) so maybe one will have problems with the newer versions? After installing Calibre plugins, simply double clicking to download books to my local library automatically strips the DRM.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought all the console games get dumped so they can be emulated?

If/when Stadia and the like take off, and streaming-only games appear, we can forget about that too. By the way, this is just one of the many reasons why I think that streamed games are very much an anti-consumer move and should not be paid for in any circumstance, to prevent normalization.

That could easily be extended to "streamed media" in general - or, more accurately, Media as a Service. Going further, Software as a Service - or at least the part that falls under FSF's "Service as a Software Substitute" (SaaSS) - is an anti-consumer move too. Related, the trend of tying physical products to Internet services in a blatant attempt to turn ownership into renting is a hugely popular and a hugely anti-consumer practice too.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#350
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between copying physical objects and digital ones. Books can be copied for sure, but the cost of copying a digital book is negligible compared to the cost of copying a real book. Zero cost of copying makes it possible to give it away for free (e.g. to drive traffic) and monetize otherwise (most digital piracy is business, not charity). In the physical world, copied books are not given away f…

A physical book can readily be hand-scanned in an hour. There are numerous guides to processing the scans from that point. Two of the besst I've found: https://natecraun.net/articles/linux-guide-to-book-scanning.... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Creating_a_DjVu_file

It's not about scanning. It's about printing (replicating) a book - it is significantly more expensive to replicate a real book than a digital book.
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