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Libra is targeted at developing countries

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Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#21
post #3

Looks interesting on a light skim. However, one key point that is always missing, how will people buy/cash-out this libra currency? Most developing countries have transactions going on in cash(unless it is happening in few hundred thousands). You'd be lucky if you see a card-payment machine anywhere except on exotic shops like car-dealership/real-estate/big brand electronics(apple). ATMs are for rich/wealthy class on…

Where have you lived/visited? I'm brazilian and almost everyone here has at least a debit card. Some people don't even carry money when they go out. Credit cards are widely used as well.

Is Brazil a developing country? It's more middle income isn't it?

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#22

Isn’t the USA the country where instant bank transfers dont exist? Where you get charged to withdraw cash from an ATM (unless its your banks ATM)? Most other countries have this infrastructure already, because technically it’s trivial.

What is "most other countries"? As far as I'm aware, at least in the Eurozone ATMs also have fees (unless it's the same bank) and bank wires (SEPA) aren't instant either. Operating ATMs may be "trivial", but it costs money, so why would you serve your competitor's customers cash for free?

Obviously it varies between counties, but here in the UK I can transfer money between my three banks essentially instantly (normally less than 15 seconds), for free. And we were late to the game. The only time I pay to use an ATM is at ones in small corner ships. Bank ones are almost always free, and you can use any bank's machine.

Planet Money did a good episode on why the US system is so bad compared to most other developed countries. Mostly seems to come down to the huge number of small bank's you have, it massively complicates any attempt to roll out a new tech platform.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#23

Isn’t the USA the country where instant bank transfers dont exist? Where you get charged to withdraw cash from an ATM (unless its your banks ATM)? Most other countries have this infrastructure already, because technically it’s trivial.

What is "most other countries"? As far as I'm aware, at least in the Eurozone ATMs also have fees (unless it's the same bank) and bank wires (SEPA) aren't instant either. Operating ATMs may be "trivial", but it costs money, so why would you serve your competitor's customers cash for free?

Most ATMs don't charge a fee, so if your bank doesn't charge one for a withdrawal out of network, you're good. A lot of countries have had pretty good online banking offerings for a while now and free withdrawals at any ATM are typical.

SEPA is over 10 years old now, and while not the fastest protocol, modern banks clear transfers in a couple of hours. Not bad for something that allows you to wire money to some 500 million people. And the newer SCT instant payment scheme is being rolled out as we speak.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#24
post #3

Looks interesting on a light skim. However, one key point that is always missing, how will people buy/cash-out this libra currency? Most developing countries have transactions going on in cash(unless it is happening in few hundred thousands). You'd be lucky if you see a card-payment machine anywhere except on exotic shops like car-dealership/real-estate/big brand electronics(apple). ATMs are for rich/wealthy class on…

Developing countries use a good deal of mobile banking. Anecdotally mobile payments make up as much as 50% of all transactions. I am typing this on mobile so can't really post links. Search Mpesa and Ecocash for more information. Card processing machines are also becoming pretty common and it is easy to transfer money from you mobile banking account to a card.

Agree. Check out China where even beggars are using QR code payment methods (though possibly as a means by payment companies and 'others' to collect data on donators?) https://www.businesstoday.in/current/world/beggars-in-china-...

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but can Indian expats also send money to India via this gateway? Can you use it to order something online from another country? What about the relative weakness of the Rupee vs a mix of reserve currencies? Libra still makes sense as an "international" currency, even if it doesn't make sense nationally.

> can Indian expats also send money to India via this gateway? Not yet, but I've heard that this is in the works. The hardest part of trying to use UPI right now as an Indian expat is that you need an Indian phone number and your bank account should be linked to it.

You are vastly overestimating the sophistication of the US banking system. Integrating with it is incredibly difficult since so many steps rely heavily on trust between parties. For example, information sufficient for direct depositing into someone’s account is sufficient for direct depositing OUT of said account as well.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#26
post #2

Yea, the narrative in mainstream circles keep saying this is another data grab. It's understandable given Facebook's history, but it's ignoring the fact that they don't need more data to make this venture worthwhile. It's a massive opportunity all on its own, on the face of it.

Anybody who uses VISA or PayPal but then wouldn't use Libra because of "privacy concerns" probably doesn't realize how invasive these other companies are. Libra will not require a Facebook account and will supposedly not be tied to a Facebook account, so the danger should be about the same.

Frankly, I find the entire fintech/payment processor/credit environment to be at times little more than a parasite that I'd like to see go away.

That won't happen though. Capital needs to flow as freely as possible; and the current players at least make that work. Libra, however, has no substantive purpose in the long run other than to finally tap into the rent-seeking upper layers of the financial system. It seems to be the tech industry's fallback when they can't think of anything more innovative to do. Start up a financial services division, and tap into those delicious fees from the "underbanked".

Make no mistake; the data grab possibilities are real barring explicit intervention by regulators. Any advertisement company based on data collection for ad targeting has far too much potential value to reap out of actually tapping into the transaction details of user's. Having the "world's biggest social network graph" at your disposal on top of a distributed ledger from which can be derived a parallel graph of financial activity represents a gold mine in terms of panoptic levels of informational awareness.

People don't seem to quite get it yet that a big enough pile of seemingly unidentifiable data points can be combined to create something as good as a fingerprint or DNA strand. In government work, this is explicitly highlighted anddrilled into every employee, every year (at least at the Federal level).

Caveat emptor. Embrace your localized economies; beware of those seeking to add you to their "customer base" for the sake of 'your convenience'. They wouldn't be going out of their way to get you onboard if they didn't have anything to gain in the long run.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody who uses VISA or PayPal but then wouldn't use Libra because of "privacy concerns" probably doesn't realize how invasive these other companies are. Libra will not require a Facebook account and will supposedly not be tied to a Facebook account, so the danger should be about the same.

If this product brings us from a world of venmo, paypal, facebook payments, wechat etc to one where I can use any of their clients to send money to any of the other clients, I consider it a huge win. It's so silly that my friends and I have to agree on the same money app to send money to each other. Imagine if I had to convince every person to use firefox before I could send them a url, or if they needed hotmail and…

It takes 5 minutes per life to sign up for a zelle /venmo/WeChat account , plus one minute per device.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where have you lived/visited? I'm brazilian and almost everyone here has at least a debit card. Some people don't even carry money when they go out. Credit cards are widely used as well.

Is Brazil a developing country? It's more middle income isn't it?

Yes it is.
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