Libra is targeted at developing countries • Hacker News Board

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#11

Post by slindz » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:44 PM UTC

theboat wrote: post #7

n_ary wrote: post #3

Looks interesting on a light skim. However, one key point that is always missing, how will people buy/cash-out this libra currency? Most developing countries have transactions going on in cash(unless it is happening in few hundred thousands). You'd be lucky if you see a card-payment machine anywhere except on exotic shops like car-dealership/real-estate/big brand electronics(apple). ATMs are for rich/wealthy class on…

When everyone accepts libra, there is no need to exchange libra for hard currencies. Facebook, as the owner and operator of the world's largest social network, believes it can create a closed ecosystem where libra is used for many types of transactions.

You took the high road and subtly left out the level of terror that should inspire. Kudos.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#12

Post by gridlockd » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #2

Yea, the narrative in mainstream circles keep saying this is another data grab. It's understandable given Facebook's history, but it's ignoring the fact that they don't need more data to make this venture worthwhile. It's a massive opportunity all on its own, on the face of it.

Anybody who uses VISA or PayPal but then wouldn't use Libra because of "privacy concerns" probably doesn't realize how invasive these other companies are.

Libra will not require a Facebook account and will supposedly not be tied to a Facebook account, so the danger should be about the same.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#13

Post by gridlockd » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

vinay_ys wrote: post #5

Unified Payment Interface (UPI) in India is a highly scalable (800million transactions per month) mobile payment method with 160+ banks participating with numerous mobile apps (example: Bhim, PhonePe) that is free of charge for merchant payments and up to 30 person to person payments per month. Subsequent P2P transactions are charged at flat ₹2.5 for Please see statistics published by various agencies: NPCI - Nationa…

Is it "free" from a customers's perspective, or from a merchant's perspective?

From a customer's perspective, credit cards are also "free". However, from a merchant's perspective, the cost is 2-3% plus a constant hassle with prospective fraud.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#14

Post by hypocrazybr » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

n_ary wrote: post #3

Looks interesting on a light skim. However, one key point that is always missing, how will people buy/cash-out this libra currency? Most developing countries have transactions going on in cash(unless it is happening in few hundred thousands). You'd be lucky if you see a card-payment machine anywhere except on exotic shops like car-dealership/real-estate/big brand electronics(apple). ATMs are for rich/wealthy class on…

Where have you lived/visited? I'm brazilian and almost everyone here has at least a debit card. Some people don't even carry money when they go out. Credit cards are widely used as well.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#15

Post by downrightmike » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

crispyporkbites wrote: post #8

Isn’t the USA the country where instant bank transfers dont exist? Where you get charged to withdraw cash from an ATM (unless its your banks ATM)? Most other countries have this infrastructure already, because technically it’s trivial.

Probably trivial because they adopted the tech later and it was easier. The last to modernize, will be the most modern. The US rolls out new tech and charges for it, and at this point charges and fees have been there since the start and there is no reason to remove them. There are banks that will pay the fees, so effectively a free transfer, but it is up to the consumer to select these companies to do business with. It is the old voting with the wallet method.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#16

Post by raverbashing » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 9:26 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #9

crispyporkbites wrote: post #8

Isn’t the USA the country where instant bank transfers dont exist? Where you get charged to withdraw cash from an ATM (unless its your banks ATM)? Most other countries have this infrastructure already, because technically it’s trivial.

What is "most other countries"? As far as I'm aware, at least in the Eurozone ATMs also have fees (unless it's the same bank) and bank wires (SEPA) aren't instant either. Operating ATMs may be "trivial", but it costs money, so why would you serve your competitor's customers cash for free?

Fees in ATMs around Europe are rarely as extortionate as they are in the US

Sepa is not instant but it's miles ahead of ACH

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#17

Post by basch » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 9:51 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #12

carlosdp wrote: post #2

Yea, the narrative in mainstream circles keep saying this is another data grab. It's understandable given Facebook's history, but it's ignoring the fact that they don't need more data to make this venture worthwhile. It's a massive opportunity all on its own, on the face of it.

Anybody who uses VISA or PayPal but then wouldn't use Libra because of "privacy concerns" probably doesn't realize how invasive these other companies are. Libra will not require a Facebook account and will supposedly not be tied to a Facebook account, so the danger should be about the same.

If this product brings us from a world of venmo, paypal, facebook payments, wechat etc to one where I can use any of their clients to send money to any of the other clients, I consider it a huge win. It's so silly that my friends and I have to agree on the same money app to send money to each other. Imagine if I had to convince every person to use firefox before I could send them a url, or if they needed hotmail and gmail to receive messages.

Calibra vs Zelle here we come.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#18

Post by umeshunni » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #10

writepub wrote: post #4

India has no need for Libra, the government owned payment gateway allows for zero transaction fee, instantaneous payments and transfers. BHIM is a consumer wallet/app launched and maintained by the government for the same

Perhaps, but can Indian expats also send money to India via this gateway? Can you use it to order something online from another country? What about the relative weakness of the Rupee vs a mix of reserve currencies? Libra still makes sense as an "international" currency, even if it doesn't make sense nationally.

> can Indian expats also send money to India via this gateway?

Not yet, but I've heard that this is in the works. The hardest part of trying to use UPI right now as an Indian expat is that you need an Indian phone number and your bank account should be linked to it.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#19

Post by mmsimanga » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 10:05 PM UTC

n_ary wrote: post #3

Looks interesting on a light skim. However, one key point that is always missing, how will people buy/cash-out this libra currency? Most developing countries have transactions going on in cash(unless it is happening in few hundred thousands). You'd be lucky if you see a card-payment machine anywhere except on exotic shops like car-dealership/real-estate/big brand electronics(apple). ATMs are for rich/wealthy class on…

Developing countries use a good deal of mobile banking. Anecdotally mobile payments make up as much as 50% of all transactions. I am typing this on mobile so can't really post links. Search Mpesa and Ecocash for more information. Card processing machines are also becoming pretty common and it is easy to transfer money from you mobile banking account to a card.

Re: Libra is targeted at developing countries

#20

Post by mmsimanga » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

One factor to consider especially in a country like Zimbabwe where most transactions are done through mobile phones is that electronic transactions are now a cash cow. Traceable and taxable. 2c for every dollar transferred in Zim goes to the government for transactions above 10 dollars. The government is not going to let someone steal their lunch.