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Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

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Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#61

This comment is being written from the ThinkPad A485 that's been assigned to me from my employer. It too is amazingly serviceable, as many ThinkPads have built a reputation for upholding. I have grown accustom to only considering ThinkPads when eyeing a new laptop. Another corporate laptop I have had the joy of using is the HP EliteBook 840 G3, which is a predecessor of these devices inspected by iFixit. Like the Thi…

The new thinkpads are not very repairable at all, especially the thin ones like the X1 Carbon. Even the T490 is terrible in this aspect, and it's not a super thin ultrabook.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they've changed things in the last year or so, their XPS 15 and 13 have a soft-touch plastic that's probably got carbon fiber in it, or at least patterned that way - but it's got some sort of coating that is a rubber/polymer of some kind that's soft and almost sticky. It's sort of like the buttons on some TV remotes.

2017, 2018, 2019 models (XPS 13" and 15") are aluminium alloy top and bottom from my quick check on the Dell website. Did you make any effort to check the facts? Disclaimer: I have last year's XPS 15: although I am not a fan of Dell, I chose the XPS for fast i9 and good Linux support and I haven't been disappointed.

> Did you make any effort to check the facts?

There's no need to be rude or condescending.

I'm going based on my experience of using Dell XPS13 and XPS15 laptops at work over several generations. I don't have access to those laptops anymore, so I can't tell you which models they were, but I'm not making this shit up.

To be clear, I'm talking about the plastic on the inside, around the keyboard rest/etc, not the external shell - from the images on the linked page, they still have that same look to them, so I don't know if they've stopped using it.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#63
post #20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But instead manufacturers of laptops, phones, and tablets are putting in substandard batteries to help ensure you come back in a few years for a new one. which manufacturer is it they're buying from that's substandard, who should they be buying from, and how are those "standard" companies the standard when they have to be making a tiny slice of the batteries on the planet if they're not used in laptops, phones or t…

Apple for instance, although their battery replacement program helps. Their macbook air and other very thin laptops have very hard to replace batteries. Not to mention the apple problems (keyboards and flexgate/stage light most recently). Is it worth 3 generations of keyboard problems for some tiny saved amount of thickness? Google Pixel phones, slate, and pixel book are similarly hard. Dell and Lenovo are mixed, som…

you addressed none of my questions.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#64

Anyone use one of these for work and care to share their opinion? I got burned real bad (figuratively, though it did get very hot) by a garbage HP laptop in like 2006, so I’m curious if the build and general quality have improved.

My Anecdata is that I've got an HP Elitebook 840 G2 that I've had for ~5 years now. Works well, you can easily remove/upgrade RAM and storage and I've never had any problems with it.

Recently acquired an HP Spectre x360 and so far that's working well too, although it is less upgradable than the Elitebook.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#65
post #53

Whereas my sisters consumer hp 15" laptop requires removing the keyboard? to start opening it up. It required so much dismantling to replace the WiFi card I told her to buy a usb dongle. Lenovo equivalent you just unscrew a hatch and its there.

I replaced the WLAN card on my wife's Lenovo consumer laptop a few years ago and needed a hacked BIOS because the original one was the only one that was accepted for ... I don't know what reasons. Lenovo -- in that price bracket -- isn't really better in that respect.

Well that sucks. Bad luck. So much for that theory then.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#66
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replaced the WLAN card on my wife's Lenovo consumer laptop a few years ago and needed a hacked BIOS because the original one was the only one that was accepted for ... I don't know what reasons. Lenovo -- in that price bracket -- isn't really better in that respect.

Well that sucks. Bad luck. So much for that theory then.

Well, it was easy to find and replace, though. The laptop just wouldn't boot afterwards ;-)

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#67

Anyone use one of these for work and care to share their opinion? I got burned real bad (figuratively, though it did get very hot) by a garbage HP laptop in like 2006, so I’m curious if the build and general quality have improved.

It would be a bit sad if they made them repairable because they fail so often. Being more serious I’m not sure this is considered in the debate about repairability. If Apple soldering memory to the motherboard is more reliable than using a socket is that better or worse for the life of the product.

> It would be a bit sad if they made them repairable because they fail so often.

Luckily, it's a matter of market expectations around repairability rather than an expectation of increase failure rates.

These are their enterprise machines and there's an expectation in that market for a certain level of on-site repairability, either by purchased warranty plans where the manufacturer sends out a repair tech same or next day, or via on-site tech support being able to purchase spare parts and fix them themselves. That's why you see both repair manuals and spare parts readily available.

Lost productivity from sending a machine to a repair depot for a week or two can vastly outstrip the cost of the machine itself, so laptops which require that for even the most common failure modes will tend to get dinged during the procurement selection process. My company actually gives a choice between Dells or Macs for new hires, and the Macs require business justification and SVP approval, since AppleCare for Enterprise is both incredibly expensive and still very limited in what on-site repairs are even capable of being performed in the first place.

The vast majority of consumers are neither capable of repairing their own devices, nor take that into account when purchasing products. So repairability is prioritized accordingly in the design process for consumer devices.

Protip: The same holds true in most things. Consumer lines tend to optimize form and features[1], whereas business/commercial lines tend to prioritize utility[1] and reliability[2]. Dollar for dollar, you'll get more bang for your buck if you shop at commercial suppliers (such as restaurant supply stores for kitchen stuff).

[1] Features and utility are two different things. Cutting edge and unique features, no matter how gimmicky or little used, can be a selling and marketing point for consumer products. These tend to be pretty worthless in commercial products, at least until they've standardized and matured into mainstream functionality.

[2] Commercial products are designed for long periods of sustained use, and products are designed with the materials, durability, and/or repairability to support that. Consumer products are designed for light, sporadic use and materials/designs are chosen accordingly.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#68
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The newer ThinkPads seem much less user-servicable than the older models though. I hope Lenovo returns to a user-servicability>thinness approach at some point.

It's not newer vs older. It's slick hipster-looking mac-like all-soldered X series vs thicker corporate all-serviceable bricks of T series. (I greatly prefer the latter, of course.)

My understanding is that the newer X- and T- are still less serviceable than earlier models in the same line.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except then upgrades are impossible so when software moves on the device is useless anyway. Why defend this practice?

Yes, that needs to go into the calculation as well. Note I’m not defending this practice, just wondering if it’s really the problem it’s made out to be.

I was less charitable than I should have been by asserting that you were defending the practice, I apologize. I have a gut reaction to soldering RAM down that is not necessarily rational, akin to being grossed out by spiders.

Re: Thin yet Repairable Devices: HP Proves They Exist

#70
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take a lot of extra thickness. I had a cleanout of old tech recently and found an 10" HP laptop I hadn't used for a few years and fighting the nostalgia to get rid of that one was hard. It was such a solid, thick and chunky little thing that I could put through hell and would just keep on working. It was just perfect for it's job of mostly coding during commute time. I don't feel remotely the same way about the t…

Wrote my thesis on an Omnibook 800 (with 16 megs of ram, lol) running twm. Miss the form factor, the ruggedness and the amazeballs integrated mouse. Still can't understand why people haven't copied the mouse design. Then again, I still can't understand why manufacturers are incapable of producing a nice keyboard like the Omnibook 800 had. http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=233 HP of today ... it's just a bra…

What's the amazeballs integrated mouse?
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