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Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

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Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#371

Post by deckard1 »

benreesman wrote: post #314
__jal wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s nonetheless a shame that it’s so universally misunderstood how ad-supported megacorps make their money that even highly sophisticated users of the web still talk about the value of personal data (source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years). That may be the case for some people, but that is not my complaint, nor that of many folks I know. I simply don't care how FB, Google and other surveillance outfits mak…

You could either stop using these services or (as I suspect) you find them too valuable to dismiss entirely quarantine them to a VPN/incognito interaction in less time than it took to type that comment. I don’t want to single you out personally but there’s a broad trend on HN of bitter-sounding commentary on the surveillance powers of these companies by people who can easily defeat any tracking that it’s economical f…

> You could either stop using these services

No you can't. Facebook creates shadow profiles for every single person in the world. If any single one of your friends has WhatsApp, Facebook has your phone number. They have your phone number and the entire address book of your friend, who probably has friends in common. If two of your friends have WhatsApp and they both have your number...

You see where I'm going here? There are pictures of me on Facebook that I did not put there. From friends or friends of friends.

I'm not even scratching the surface of what Google knows with GPS and WiFi connections.

No one consented to any of this bullshit.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#372

Post by benreesman »

anth_anm wrote: post #358
benreesman wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment adds a lot to the conversation, so I don’t want to be more contrary than necessary. It’s nonetheless a shame that it’s so universally misunderstood how ad-supported megacorps make their money that even highly sophisticated users of the web still talk about the value of personal data (source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years). Much like the highest information-gain feature for the future price of a…

> source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years Why would anyone ever trust a goddamn thing you have to say about their data? Unless they pay your salary and are asking you to give your expertise on hoarding and abusing user data, obviously.

Me spilling tea about the business is far more in the spirit of a whistleblower than a shill.

I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by shedding light on one of the most powerful entities in existence.

But TLDR it’s not as interesting as people like to think.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#373

Post by BeetleB »

jimmaswell wrote: post #215
oil25 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reCAPTCHA on VPN is difficult, but on the Tor network, they are downright impossible. I've never been able to get past it, even after a few dozen painful attempts. That means Google services are entirely off-limits over Tor, even Search, which is a disgrace.

You can hardly blame anyone for blocking Tor traffic. You might not be using it for abuse but a large volume of abuse originates from it.

>You might not be using it for abuse but a large volume of abuse originates from it.

Given that Tor is a tiny percentage of Internet traffic, most of the abusive volume out there has little to do with Tor.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#374

Post by stickfigure »

__jal wrote: post #299
benreesman wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment adds a lot to the conversation, so I don’t want to be more contrary than necessary. It’s nonetheless a shame that it’s so universally misunderstood how ad-supported megacorps make their money that even highly sophisticated users of the web still talk about the value of personal data (source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years). Much like the highest information-gain feature for the future price of a…

> It’s nonetheless a shame that it’s so universally misunderstood how ad-supported megacorps make their money that even highly sophisticated users of the web still talk about the value of personal data (source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years). That may be the case for some people, but that is not my complaint, nor that of many folks I know. I simply don't care how FB, Google and other surveillance outfits mak…

They have no right to it, and I have every right to try to limit their visibility.

That's entirely fair! But also: You have no right to use my website, and I have every right to limit your access.

Recaptcha is simply part of this negotiation.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#375

Post by OrgNet »

miohtama wrote: post #368
OrgNet wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even use a VPN and have lots of issues solving google's captcha...

Potential other causes - Your ISP is a source of a lot of malicious traffic - You have some browser extension or other adjustments that makes it harder to analyse you as a genuine web browser For example, using a browser automation like Selenium testing triggers "hard" reCAPTCHA. Not sure if this because of some automated API that Selenium exposes, or just because your browser profile looks virgin (no cookies) withou…

I use pretty standard extensions... uBlockO, decentral eyes, smart referrer... I just wish that companies would stop using Google's reCAPTCHA service.

Also my IP address rarely changes and I don't think that any malicious traffic is coming from it.

And I have Comcast, so I hope that they didn't blacklist all of us...

(I did talk bad about Google a few times though, maybe that's it)

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#376

Post by MR4D »

Not sure how this is any worse than the Facebook "like" button that's on every website on the planet.

Sure, we hate that, but it's there, and plus, Google probably already has a cookie on your computer anyway.

Given all that, this seems like a very minor privacy loss to whine about compared to all the other crap that Google/FB/etc does.

Please help me if I'm missing something unique about this particular issue.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#377

Post by benreesman »

kbenson wrote: post #365
benreesman wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you that a clean browser and IP will break any surveillance that I know about.

No, a clean browser and IP with the combination of what fonts I have installed, how my video card renders a canvas and WebGL instance (which may be affected not just by the video card you have, but the driver version used with it), my screen size, and a few other system level items that come through may or may or may not be enough to uniquely identify you. Along with linking to a prior profile if you screw up one tim…

I appreciate the information-theoretic validity of your argument, but if you think that one of these firms cares enough about your buying preferences to burn enough compute to find that correlation then you either work for the CIA or are mistaken.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#378

Post by __jal »

stickfigure wrote: post #374
__jal wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s nonetheless a shame that it’s so universally misunderstood how ad-supported megacorps make their money that even highly sophisticated users of the web still talk about the value of personal data (source: I ran Facebook’s ads backend for years). That may be the case for some people, but that is not my complaint, nor that of many folks I know. I simply don't care how FB, Google and other surveillance outfits mak…

They have no right to it, and I have every right to try to limit their visibility. That's entirely fair! But also: You have no right to use my website, and I have every right to limit your access. Recaptcha is simply part of this negotiation.

> You have no right to use my website

Of course.

> Recaptcha is simply part of this negotiation.

It is only a negotiation if I know it is there.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#379

Post by benreesman »

dmitriid wrote: post #352
benreesman wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately politically acceptable regulation only deters new ventures because it makes the costs of compliance too high. The right vehicle for this is antitrust, but if you think you can sell that in this climate then I’ve got a great deal for you on the London Bridge.

The costs of compliance are not too high. Compliance is actually ridiculously easy for new companies: they need to collect only the data they need. That is all there is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regu...

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#380

Post by makomk »

jcomis wrote: post #47

I hate the v3 reCAPTCHA. On FF, I usually KNOW I am answering correctly and it says I failed. I always have to go through it multiple times. It's maddening. It often leaves me second guessing myself... is that sliver of car counted? is a crossing signal a street light? What about those streetlights way off in the distance, do I select those two in addition to the ones front and center? That RV looks sort of like a bu…

Apparently one of the Twitch streamers I sometimes watch had it do that to her just the other day whilst testing out her own site's reCAPTCHA-protected form: https://clips.twitch.tv/BitterTentativeRamenChefFrank
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