Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#141

Post by atomicUpdate » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

nothis wrote: post #77

pergadad wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of small companies/private website owners might make a simple cost/benefit calculation - 15% less users but in return X reduced false accounts/traffic/...

This is a problem that has to be solved by government regulation, “the market” has already made up its mind: It doesn’t give a fuck.

What is there to regulate? Bots are already illegal and "the market" has decided it does care, which is why reCAPTCHA exists and is widely used. Those companies aren't rejecting legitimate users/customers out of spite.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#142

Post by amirhirsch » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

jk2faster wrote: post #113

https://hcaptcha.com/ seems to be a viable alternative. If you are a developer, please consider using something other than reCaptcha. Not only is it annoying, but a privacy nightmare as well.

thanks, I work on hCaptcha, we are hoping to provide a unbiased bot-detection system with different incentives from an advertising company. Let me know if you have any questions.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#143

Post by judge2020 » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

jk2faster wrote: post #113

https://hcaptcha.com/ seems to be a viable alternative. If you are a developer, please consider using something other than reCaptcha. Not only is it annoying, but a privacy nightmare as well.

> earns website owners money

> an open decentralized protocol for human review that runs on the Ethereum blockchain.

Is this basically a JS crypto miner?

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#144

Post by jk2faster » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

bluetidepro wrote: post #140

cbsks wrote: post #5

You can view your reCaptcha V3 score here: https://recaptcha-demo.appspot.com/recaptcha-v3-request-scor... I get .7 on my iPhone, I’m guessing that my liberal use of Firefox containers and the cookie auto-delete extension on my desktop will give me a much lower score and cause me to have to jump through extra hoops at websites that implement it, just like the reCaptcha V2 does. Edit: I also got 0.7 on Firefox with st…

I got a 0.9. What's it out of? 1? Sorry if I completely missed that somewhere already.

Yes, it is out of 1. From https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/docs/v3, > reCAPTCHA v3 returns a score (1.0 is very likely a good interaction, 0.0 is very likely a bot).

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#145

Post by asdff » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

fasicle wrote: post #109

danShumway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Firefox fingerprint resisting turned on and with Ublock Origin/UMatrix, I get a score of 0.1. And I'm not even on a VPN; I'm sure on my home network I'd have an even lower score. To me, it feels like Google's entire strategy behind reCaptcha is to make it harder to protect your privacy. We've basically given up on the idea that there are tasks only humans can do, and to me V3 feels like Google openly saying, "Yo…

Not sure how much Ublock Origin makes a difference. I have a score of 0.9 with it turned on.

I think this score is fishy. Ran the test three times and got three different scores.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#146

Post by Fogest » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

Loulybob wrote: post #32

cbsks wrote: post #5

You can view your reCaptcha V3 score here: https://recaptcha-demo.appspot.com/recaptcha-v3-request-scor... I get .7 on my iPhone, I’m guessing that my liberal use of Firefox containers and the cookie auto-delete extension on my desktop will give me a much lower score and cause me to have to jump through extra hoops at websites that implement it, just like the reCaptcha V2 does. Edit: I also got 0.7 on Firefox with st…

Using chrome on my phone I get 0.9, but if I switch to Firefox I get 0.1. This is essentially going to let Google gatekeep the web if you aren't using their services.

Really? I don't think so. I get a 0.9 on Google Chrome, and a 0.7 on Firefox. I heavily use Chrome and I have not used Firefox apart from maybe testing some local websites. Despite this I still got 0.7 on there. I expected lower since I don't use the browser.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#147

Post by amirhirsch » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #143

jk2faster wrote: post #113

https://hcaptcha.com/ seems to be a viable alternative. If you are a developer, please consider using something other than reCaptcha. Not only is it annoying, but a privacy nightmare as well.

> earns website owners money > an open decentralized protocol for human review that runs on the Ethereum blockchain. Is this basically a JS crypto miner?

We provide dataset annotation services and pay out to sites based on what companies pay us.

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#148

Post by ramraj07 » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

oil25 wrote: post #81

ulfw wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse when you're running a VPN (especially one of the major public ones). When I see reCAPTCHA I basically give up as sometimes I have to go through 6 or 7 full sets to be let into a site. It's the evil of the internet this.

reCAPTCHA on VPN is difficult, but on the Tor network, they are downright impossible. I've never been able to get past it, even after a few dozen painful attempts. That means Google services are entirely off-limits over Tor, even Search, which is a disgrace.

I'm assuming you are not logged into a Google account during this? What happens if you create a throwaway Google account while on Tor? Or is that also impossible?

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#149

Post by dao- » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #126

Google has been doing the same with reCAPTCHA v2 [1]. They are aware of the legal risk of outright blocking users from accessing services, so reCAPTCHA v3 contains no user facing UI, Google merely makes a suggestion in the form of a user score, so the responsibility to delay or block access and the legal liability that comes with it falls on websites. reCAPTCHA v2 is superseded by v3 because it presents a broader opp…

I'm not sure there's a significant legal difference in the end. If someone could demonstrate that alternative browsers regularly get a lower score than Chrome, that seems like a pretty good antitrust case.

Or were you referring to the risk that individuals would sue Google for getting blocked from random, potentially essential websites?

Re: Google’s new reCAPTCHA has a dark side

#150

Post by throwayEngineer » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

xahrepap wrote: post #89

cbsks wrote: post #5

You can view your reCaptcha V3 score here: https://recaptcha-demo.appspot.com/recaptcha-v3-request-scor... I get .7 on my iPhone, I’m guessing that my liberal use of Firefox containers and the cookie auto-delete extension on my desktop will give me a much lower score and cause me to have to jump through extra hoops at websites that implement it, just like the reCaptcha V2 does. Edit: I also got 0.7 on Firefox with st…

I get .9 in Firefox on my MBP with UBlock Origin installed. I wondered if it was because I was logged in to Google, so I tried Incognito and got .7. In a never-before-used container I also get .7.

Is it safe to be using Firefox and Apple right now?

Did they fix the 0 day?