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How Bad Are Things? (2015)

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Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#61
post #37
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that as in response to someone white/Group X being told "What are _you_ complaining about?"

Right, but he seems resistant to recognizing the valid point that some people really do have it better because they're white or whatever.

What's there to "recognize" about the statement that "some people really have it better because they fall on the right side of a normal distribution"?

To a good degree of approximation, the talk about one group having it better than other is a discussion about one group's mean and/or right tail being greater than the other's. The statement you want the author to recognize is equivalent to that in a probability distribution, some samples really do fall on the right side of the mean.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#62
So, the author basically draws the conclusion that Things are Very Bad, (primarily) backed by a number of statistics, as well as his own perspective seeing people in bad situations as a psychiatrist.

I - strongly - disagree.

First of all, like the author says, these statistics are most likely inflated, "since I took them from groups working on these problems and those groups have every incentive to make them sound as bad as possible".

Secondly, even if you take the numbers given as fact, this is incredibly bad statistics (like most statistics not done by actual statisticians.)

Specifically: Most of these problems go hand in hand. If you were physically abused as a child, there's a higher chance you were also sexually abused as a child. If you were abused at all, there's a higher chance you'll go to prison. If you have chronic pain, there's a higher chance you'll become a heroin addict. If you're a heroin addict, there's a higher chance you'll go to prison. If you went to prison, there's a higher chance you'll be unemployed after.

I have made it one of my main life goals to meet all kinds of people. Really _all_ kinds: homeless people, extremely rich people, devout Muslims, devotees of all religions (Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, you name it), "normal people" around the world, farmers, writers, surrealists, artists, drug dealers, geniuses, idiots, assholes, extremely kind people...

One thing I've found is that the good (and the bad) seems to clump. If you get lucky and end up with some of (good friends|good family|good partner|good financial situation|good career|good health|happy) you will often end up acquiring some of the others. The reverse also works. If you had a terrible childhood, that often leads to crime/drug use, which can lead to prison, which most always leads to further problems in life. So, in a room of 100 people, maybe:

- 9% were abused as a child - 1% were in prison - 7% were depressed - 2% were addicted to heroin/meth/prescription pills - 10% were very unhappy with their life - 7% had chronic pain

...but 90/100 had none of the above, because most of those overlapped.

I'm not saying that the world is perfect, but rather that many negative things clump.

TL;DR: If one person in 10 is sad, one is poor, one is sick, one is a heroin addict and one is in prison, that doesn't mean 6/10 people have one of these issues... perhaps 9/10 are fine, and it's just one person who's got all of those issues. Which of those 10 do you think is going to a psychiatrist?

Further note: In America, the cycle of poverty/jail/addiction can trap entire families for generations. In other countries, government assistance can take the worry of housing or medical care off your back either permanently or long enough to work on other problems.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#63

In my experience this is very true upon simply becoming the kind of person who is open to listening to others. The vast majority of people you've run into have had huge difficulties in life, or are affected by people close to them who have huge difficulties in their lives. People tell me I'm a wonderful listener due to my lack of judgement on their problems (more than once, people, including my therapist, tell me I'd…

> but really I've internalized the idea that everyone is living a life less than what they hoped their life would be to various extents and that there is also a near infinite combination of ways to achieve this effect such that no one can be dismissed for their misery in any respect without also dismissing the "legitimate" misery of a wide swath of people. There's a downside to this logic, one of the enabling sort. I…

I don't see how that is a pragmatic view. Rather the idea that you can fix something with personal responsibility, true introspection and growth to find true happiness is quite distinctly romantic.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#64
post #37
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that as in response to someone white/Group X being told "What are _you_ complaining about?"

Right, but he seems resistant to recognizing the valid point that some people really do have it better because they're white or whatever.

I think privalage is contextual. It depends on you actually coming into contact with situations where it helps.

- You can't be privileged in getting a promotion in a dead end job where no one gets promoted.

- You can't be privileged in social acceptability if you have a mental health issue that keeps you from going outside.

- You can't be privileged in educational opportunities when you had to quit high school to pay for a parent's medical bills.

It goes on and on. Privalage is real, but it's mostly real for those who are successful, and have a whole pile of luck and privalage backing them up. It's a lot less applicable for everyone else, the suffering masses.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#65
post #50
post #19

> I work in a wealthy, mostly-white college town consistently ranked one of the best places to live in the country. I wonder to what extent the setting in which the author works selects for people who will feel isolated/regretful and therefore develop the kinds of problems s/he encounters. > The town where I practice psychiatry is mostly white and mostly wealthy. That doesn’t save it. The underlying assumption is tha…

Divorce is less common among affluent couples.

Given the stress that money problems can cause in relationships this doesn't seem surprising to me.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but really I've internalized the idea that everyone is living a life less than what they hoped their life would be to various extents and that there is also a near infinite combination of ways to achieve this effect such that no one can be dismissed for their misery in any respect without also dismissing the "legitimate" misery of a wide swath of people. There's a downside to this logic, one of the enabling sort. I…

I only said it's important to be able to listen and acknowledge that people are troubled. That a person is troubled and therefore abusive to others is just an extension of that. I don't understand this downside you're explaining.

They're essentially talking about enabling. Sometimes listening and acknowledging can actually be harmful. Especially over a long term period of time if the person being acknowledged isn't actually changing (or attempting to change) the underlying behavior that's driving the unwanted effects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#67
post #50
post #19

> I work in a wealthy, mostly-white college town consistently ranked one of the best places to live in the country. I wonder to what extent the setting in which the author works selects for people who will feel isolated/regretful and therefore develop the kinds of problems s/he encounters. > The town where I practice psychiatry is mostly white and mostly wealthy. That doesn’t save it. The underlying assumption is tha…

Divorce is less common among affluent couples.

Seems plausible - got a reference?

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#68
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but he seems resistant to recognizing the valid point that some people really do have it better because they're white or whatever.

What's there to "recognize" about the statement that "some people really have it better because they fall on the right side of a normal distribution"? To a good degree of approximation, the talk about one group having it better than other is a discussion about one group's mean and/or right tail being greater than the other's. The statement you want the author to recognize is equivalent to that in a probability distri…

When talking about groups, that makes sense. I think one of the points that the author is making is that it doesn't make sense to apply this to individuals within this group.

"White males are privileged" is a reasonable statement to make with plenty of evidence to support it. "You have it better than me because you're a white male" doesn't, because there's a significant amount of overlap in the bell curves of "better off" (regardless of how you define it) between white males, and black women (to give an example).

It's more-or-less the same argument as assuming that any given man is physically stronger than any given woman because on average men are stronger.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#69
post #15

Isn't that just entropy in action... There are a zillion ways for any system to be disordered, and only a handful that we would consider "ordered". Life is constantly fighting entropy, and always eventually fails. It makes sense for disorder and even misery to be fairly common. I do tend to dismiss the concerns of others, simply because I've come to the conclusion that I cannot fix the vast majority of the problems o…

I agree. To get anything but the most superficial understanding of someone's problems is going to take a huge investment in time, that's what therapists get paid to do with varying levels of success. It's a very real cost to actually understand someone. I think it's very difficult to even understand yourself and your own actions, and that's with a lifetime of first hand experiences.

Re: How Bad Are Things? (2015)

#70
>This is part of why I get enraged whenever somebody on Tumblr says “People in Group X need to realize they have it really good”,

Imagine that 70 year old lady he describes lacking access to proper health care or shelter. Not that I am unsympathetic, but first world problems are first world problems, get enraged at your own peril.

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