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‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

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Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#161

There may be some signature that identifies real-world fakes, in the same way that the Onion, well smells like an onion. But, I have a general criticism about this area of research, which seems to conflate the semantic truth. value of content with the content itself, for example in statements like "fake news spreads faster" (veracity is an extrinsic property of data, and not one that is cognitively accessible to its…

This isn't about using semantic markers to identify inaccurate news. It is about identifying synthetic news.

"A lie will go around the world before the truth has got it's boots on."

-Mark Twain, 1919

He said that way before "fake news". How did he recognize this?

He saw that it's trivial to make a lie people want to tell, and that truth is by comparison less often compelling.

This seems so obvious, but it's so little known. At this point when I read a story online that makes me want to tell somebody else, where I feel "why doesn't everybody know about this", I start fact-checking.

That's all accuracy takes. Just that little bit of skepticism. For example, that Mark Twain quote I gave is total bull. Twain died in 1910 and the quote is actually a distorted version of this:

"Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it;" -Johnathan Swift, 1787

Why do I know this? Am I that conversant in satirical literature?

Nope. The shape of my desire to include that well-known misquotation in my reply signaled me that it might not be real. I'm not kidding. It was too much fun.

So I looked it up, saw the irony, and left the misquotation in to make a point.

That's the force we have to fight. Anything that feels Snopesish is suspicious.

Is it true that Obama was doing the same thing to asylum-seekers that Trump is? No. Is it true that Trump started the whole asylum detention program because he hates immigrants? No.

Is it true that the asylum program has a decades-long and complicated history, that the current administration has focused attention on the border to deflect from a dozen other issues its facing, thereby highlighting the detention program, and that a series of inhumane missteps have been made in managing that program, demonstrably causing a new level of suffering, because the people currently in charge tend to view that suffering as a form of justice for what they believe is a threatening criminal act?

Yeah. That's mostly true. It's also not very much fun to say.

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason people look to those independent journalists is because they notice the manipulation in the mainstream media. Some people are personally involved in a news event, and they read/watch about it and notice that the report is completely different from what happened, cause and effect are reversed, and the journalist is obviously pushing a narrative that was pre-decided before doing any research. Other peop…

I don't have time to reply to this in-depth, but I think that your comment actually elucidated the biggest issue, which is that this demonization and distrust of the mainstream media has conflated commercialized TV news like CNN (which, I'll freely admit, has embraced terrible framing) with actual news outlets (WashPo, Atlantic, NYTimes, etc). There is a difference between what CNN does and what WashPo does. Also, ha…

I think you greatly underestimate how much damage even one bad reporter in news organization can be to the entire outfit. During 2016-2018 things were especially bad in the MSM. Even "trustworthy" papers like the ones you listed were "taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay". And I'm supposed to believe they don't have a vested interest in the narrative of their story?

Meanwhile the official OIG report[1] investigated the relationship between our intelligence agencies and reporters. Here's something awful from that report:

> In addition, we identified instances where FBI employees improperly received benefits from reporters, including tickets to sporting events, golfing outings, drinks and meals, and admittance to nonpublic social events.

Anyone with a critical mind can see that these things stink. They stink from a mile away.

1. https://www.justice.gov/file/1071991/download

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#163
post #160
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second best. The best is selective reporting. Even if every story is reported 100% accurately and objectively, by choosing which stories are promoted, and which buried, you can set any agenda you want. Edit: See https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/05/Causes-of-death-i... for an example.

This discussion is falling to a trap where "Fake News" is diluted to synonym for all influencing in and propaganda. Fake News is propaganda that consists of deliberate disinformation or hoaxes. Nothing mentioned mention here falls into a category of Fake News. Fake News creates cognitive dissonance and distrust. More subtler methods work differently. "But mainstream media also does Fake News" arguments are whatabouti…

I've upvoted you because you make a good point, but I disagree. IMO, Fake News, in your restrictive definition, is to modern propaganda what Bootstrap is to modern frontend dev. It's an easy shortcut, widely known, and even talented operators are going to use it because it's the easiest way to control a (domestic or foreign) population. But resources are there, funding is there, to build much more subtle/complex systems if needed. Cut away Bootstrap, and you don't particularly dent the startup ecosystem. Cut away fake news, and you don't particularly dent the ability of troll farms to get work done. We're in a new era, fake news or not.

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#164
post #163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion is falling to a trap where "Fake News" is diluted to synonym for all influencing in and propaganda. Fake News is propaganda that consists of deliberate disinformation or hoaxes. Nothing mentioned mention here falls into a category of Fake News. Fake News creates cognitive dissonance and distrust. More subtler methods work differently. "But mainstream media also does Fake News" arguments are whatabouti…

I've upvoted you because you make a good point, but I disagree. IMO, Fake News, in your restrictive definition, is to modern propaganda what Bootstrap is to modern frontend dev. It's an easy shortcut, widely known, and even talented operators are going to use it because it's the easiest way to control a (domestic or foreign) population. But resources are there, funding is there, to build much more subtle/complex syst…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#166
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This to me is the most important thing, and has been for decades. When people complain about liberal bias in the news, they’re looking at the small picture - how a particular story was written. They don’t see that what stories are told in the first place get decided by people with a lot of power and money. Instead of focusing on “How should we handle immigration in the US?”, the first question is, “Why are we talking…

The best comment that I heard about media bias was from a conversation I had with a major news anchor nearly 20 years ago. Off the record she says, "We are biased both ways. Most reporters are liberal, and most owners of the media are right-wing. So most stories slant left, but on the big ones we're forced to slant right.* This was before Fox News became so powerful, and media became more explicitly ideologically div…

> left, but on the big ones we're forced to slant right

so peculiar that while existing in a 4d space, we are so prone to believing that politicians only operate on a 1d vector.

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite example of fake news came from real life. A friend uploaded a video of him salmon fishing on Haida Gwaii a sea lion came and snatched their fish off the line just as they were about to get it on the boat. He ended up licensing the video out and it ended up on msnbc, some news talk show and a few other news sites. Not a single one gave the correct information. One video said it was in california another g…

Errors are not lies. Disinformation is the latter. You should take everything with a grain of salt, but motivation is the critical distinction.

All of the info was provided both directly to the news companies and was available in the description in the original and videos that were reuploaded by the licensee. There was no excuse for it not to be corrrect.

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#168
post #35

The "best" fake news these days is the stuff that doesn't register even to people are read-in on the usual anti-patterns. Subtle framing, selective quotation, anonymous sources, "repeat the lie" techniques, and so on, are the ones that I see happening today that are hard to immunize yourself from. Ironically, the people who fall for these are more likely to self-identify as being aware and clued in on how to avoid fa…

Opinion Piece: "Foo, an alt right X"

Later "News" Article: "Foo, who has been associated with the alt-right, ..."

Later Opinion Piece: "Foo, who is an alt-right nazi, ..."

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's... pretty incredible that this comment subtly shifts the blame for fake news from networks of coordinated, decentralized, anti-mainstream actors to the mainstream. It's almost like this comment itself is about "enforcing a certain narrative." Independent "journalists" are the ones causing a lot of the crisis of truth currently underway. Indie YouTube channels garner credibility by pushing an "alternative" viewpo…

The only reason people look to those independent journalists is because they notice the manipulation in the mainstream media. Some people are personally involved in a news event, and they read/watch about it and notice that the report is completely different from what happened, cause and effect are reversed, and the journalist is obviously pushing a narrative that was pre-decided before doing any research. Other peop…

> Simple example: Google employees gave $1.3 million to Hillary, and zero dollars to Trump in 2016.

This jumped out to me as a statistic so extreme that it couldn't possibly be true: Google has far too many employees to have literally zero dollars donated to the Trump campaign, no matter what you think of the corporate culture. Sure enough, the example is simple because it is false:

https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/?two_year_transaction_peri...

I didn't look up the Clinton donations under the same parameters, but I'm sure it's not even close to an even split. Regardless, it's simultaneously ironic and fitting for a comment on a post about disinformation to contain such an easily-falsified statement.

The "zero" statement seems to really be making the rounds, used by Ted Cruz in a hearing, by various media outlets making the case for regulating Google because of their bias... I guess "zero" is just punchier.

Re: ‘Pre-bunk’ game reduces susceptibility to disinformation

#170
post #55
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second best. The best is selective reporting. Even if every story is reported 100% accurately and objectively, by choosing which stories are promoted, and which buried, you can set any agenda you want. Edit: See https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/05/Causes-of-death-i... for an example.

Speaking of, I saw a particularly blatant example yesterday: https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1142442971922653184 I've been following the Andrew Yang campaign since his appearance on the Joe Rogan show and so far as I can tell MSNBC has been at it for months now. The gall still astonishes me: 20 candidates qualified for the debates, he now polls in the top 8 and betting markets even place him in the top five,…

They did this during the Presidential election as well with Gary Johnson as well.
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