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Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#21

Post by netmonk »

redm wrote: post #17

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

Tribalism is based on blood ties between member of a group. This has nothing to do with nationalism which is the most evoluted social structure where blood ties where replaced by common morales, culture and languages. Tribalism is a very low form of social structure, highly linked to our primal condition of mammal individual. Nationalism and sovereignety are far more advanced social structure in an attempt to extract ourself of our natural condition. Modern society based on compound of different community, and political communautarism are just a major fallback to our primary mammale condition and an systematic attempt to destroy superior form of social structure. And i would not much trust the thinking of a proselyte member of one of the most tribalistic social group on earth, expressing his opinion about universal society, due to the fact that his mind has from birth a tribalistic biais.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#22

Post by netmonk »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #18
netmonk wrote: post #13

It's not because law of physics are universals, that the political point of view of Einstein are universal. Moreover, when you look are how many nationnal socialist scientists from Germany were transfered in America after ww2, and how America benefited until today from them, tends to discredit any kind of authoritarian argument that political point of view of a physics specialist is more relevant than the one from my…

No political views of Einstein are even mentioned, they're kinda besides the point here. Even if they weren't, many things Einstein said or wrote aren't considered insightful because he was "good at being a physicist", but because they are valuable and insightful in their own right, and often beautifully put. There should be some kind of Godwin's law for mentioning Einstein, and the "just because he was a good physic…

This is a very common habit of our modern propaganda, to use the position of an expert in very narrow field as an authoritarian position to promote political agenda... Moreover, dead cannot speak, and it's very easier to use them for this.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#23

Post by deogeo »

netmonk wrote: post #21
redm wrote: post #17

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

Tribalism is based on blood ties between member of a group. This has nothing to do with nationalism which is the most evoluted social structure where blood ties where replaced by common morales, culture and languages. Tribalism is a very low form of social structure, highly linked to our primal condition of mammal individual. Nationalism and sovereignety are far more advanced social structure in an attempt to extract…

> This has nothing to do with nationalism

A nation is just a larger tribe - people are more closely related to others in their own nation, than to those in foreign nations.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#24

Post by opportune »

hugh4life wrote: post #3
pojntfx wrote: post #2

Fascinating. The entire article doesn't even bother to include the fact that Einstein was a socialist. He didn't want to "cross borders" - he wanted to remove them, which is the sole sane solution.

How does a democracy work without borders? Without borders there is no demos.

How would it be any different than if there was just one country? Borders in the US don't seem to prevent democracy (or something close to it) from working

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#25

Post by opportune »

ptaipale wrote: post #15
anarchy8 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism at the time was inherently international.

For there to be something meaningfully international, there have to be several nations, with something distinguishing between them.

Ok then call it global, it's not a meaningful distinction just a dumb nitpick

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#26

Post by maehwasu »

anarchy8 wrote: post #6
hugh4life wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a democracy work without borders? Without borders there is no demos.

The "demos" or people would be any freely associating group of people, which isn't necessarily defined by borders.

You quite literally just independently re-derived the concept of "border" in the same sentence that you rejected it.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#27

Post by deogeo »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #20
redm wrote: post #17

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

> As man advances in civilisation, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed,…

> It has been asserted that the ear of man alone possesses a lobule; but 'a rudiment of it is found in the gorilla' and, as I hear from Prof. Preyer, it is not rarely absent in the negro.

> The sense of smell is of the highest importance to the greater number of mammals--to some, as the ruminants, in warning them of danger; to others, as the Carnivora, in finding their prey; to others, again, as the wild boar, for both purposes combined. But the sense of smell is of extremely slight service, if any, even to the dark coloured races of men, in whom it is much more highly developed than in the white and civilised races.

-- Charles Darwin, "The Descent of Man" (1871)

> It would be a pity if these Chinese supplant all other races. For the likes of us the mere thought is unspeakably dreary.

-- Albert Einstein

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#28

Post by eli_gottlieb »

redm wrote: post #17

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

Don't tell me something is built into people until you can show me the neurocomputational mechanisms by which it is so.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#29

Post by [deleted] »

deogeo wrote: post #23
netmonk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tribalism is based on blood ties between member of a group. This has nothing to do with nationalism which is the most evoluted social structure where blood ties where replaced by common morales, culture and languages. Tribalism is a very low form of social structure, highly linked to our primal condition of mammal individual. Nationalism and sovereignety are far more advanced social structure in an attempt to extract…

> This has nothing to do with nationalism A nation is just a larger tribe - people are more closely related to others in their own nation, than to those in foreign nations.

[deleted]

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#30

Post by netmonk »

deogeo wrote: post #23
netmonk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tribalism is based on blood ties between member of a group. This has nothing to do with nationalism which is the most evoluted social structure where blood ties where replaced by common morales, culture and languages. Tribalism is a very low form of social structure, highly linked to our primal condition of mammal individual. Nationalism and sovereignety are far more advanced social structure in an attempt to extract…

> This has nothing to do with nationalism A nation is just a larger tribe - people are more closely related to others in their own nation, than to those in foreign nations.

"people are more closely related to others in their own nation, than to those in foreign nations." Thank you mister Obvious. But the first part of your sentence just serves your desires by an over-simplification and reduction of the topic. No, a nation is not a larger tribe.

Just try to explain all the atrocities which happened in Africa since colonialists retired from the continent.

Try to keep several tribes inside the same border of a nation, and see the Rwanda result... :)

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