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Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#11

Post by aikah »

anarchy8 wrote: post #6
hugh4life wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a democracy work without borders? Without borders there is no demos.

The "demos" or people would be any freely associating group of people, which isn't necessarily defined by borders.

It would end up the same as today, ultimately, nations would emerge. Don't you think "free association" is where civilization began at first place? And you expect a different outcome? Who would protect "free associates" from the violence of others who don't buy into that system?

Utopia like Anarchy severely ignore the "human nature" factor.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#12

Post by pvg »

anarchy8 wrote: post #5
deogeo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borders and socialism seem perfectly compatible to me. Or do you mean that he was both a socialist, and against borders?

Socialism at the time was inherently international.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#13

Post by netmonk »

It's not because law of physics are universals, that the political point of view of Einstein are universal. Moreover, when you look are how many nationnal socialist scientists from Germany were transfered in America after ww2, and how America benefited until today from them, tends to discredit any kind of authoritarian argument that political point of view of a physics specialist is more relevant than the one from my jobless neighbour.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#14

Post by Emma_Goldman »

mehrzad wrote: post #7
pojntfx wrote: post #2

Fascinating. The entire article doesn't even bother to include the fact that Einstein was a socialist. He didn't want to "cross borders" - he wanted to remove them, which is the sole sane solution.

While I agree with you that socialism is inherently against borders, I'm not sure Einstein ever said so.

He argued in favour of a supranational security system in 1945:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1947/11/atomic-...

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#15

Post by ptaipale »

anarchy8 wrote: post #5
deogeo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borders and socialism seem perfectly compatible to me. Or do you mean that he was both a socialist, and against borders?

Socialism at the time was inherently international.

For there to be something meaningfully international, there have to be several nations, with something distinguishing between them.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#17

Post by redm »

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe.

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/...

[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#18

Post by PavlovsCat »

netmonk wrote: post #13

It's not because law of physics are universals, that the political point of view of Einstein are universal. Moreover, when you look are how many nationnal socialist scientists from Germany were transfered in America after ww2, and how America benefited until today from them, tends to discredit any kind of authoritarian argument that political point of view of a physics specialist is more relevant than the one from my…

No political views of Einstein are even mentioned, they're kinda besides the point here. Even if they weren't, many things Einstein said or wrote aren't considered insightful because he was "good at being a physicist", but because they are valuable and insightful in their own right, and often beautifully put.

There should be some kind of Godwin's law for mentioning Einstein, and the "just because he was a good physicist doesn't mean the thing I'm not actually going to address is correct" stuff showing up.

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#19

Post by raverbashing »

hugh4life wrote: post #3
pojntfx wrote: post #2

Fascinating. The entire article doesn't even bother to include the fact that Einstein was a socialist. He didn't want to "cross borders" - he wanted to remove them, which is the sole sane solution.

How does a democracy work without borders? Without borders there is no demos.

When was socialism ever about democracy?

For examples of how order is maintained, just see the Tiananmen Square protests

Re: Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders

#20

Post by PavlovsCat »

redm wrote: post #17

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...

> As man advances in civilisation, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed, such men are separated from him by great differences in appearance or habits, experience unfortunately shews us how long it is, before we look at them as our fellow-creatures. [...] This virtue, one of the noblest with which man is endowed, seems to arise incidentally from our sympathies becoming more tender and more widely diffused, until they are extended to all sentient beings. As soon as this virtue is honoured and practised by some few men, it spreads through instruction and example to the young, and eventually becomes incorporated in public opinion.

-- Charles Darwin, "The Descent of Man" (1871)

> A human being is a part of a whole, called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

-- Albert Einstein

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