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HTML is the Web

petelambert.com

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Re: HTML is the Web

#241

Post by buboard »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #7
meerita wrote: post #3

I pretty much agree with all the article. Back in 2001, when Web Standards were on the rise, people used to validate their HTML code. It was shown as a badge of prestige when you had 0 errors. Semantic HTML was a hot topic and most of the developers I worked with were a sort of HTML taliban. But the popularity of frameworks helped developers forget the basics and concentrate more on learning how to get the most out o…

All my webpages had the valid xhtml badge! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Valid_XHTML_1.0.svg I still have a hard time un-learning ` `

> un-learning ``

wait what ?

Re: HTML is the Web

#242

Post by Zelphyr »

I feel like many people here are misreading the OP as anti-framework and I didn’t read it that way at all. Sure, there is an element of, “you don’t need to immediately grab the nearest framework as the solution to _every_ problem”, and that’s something I personally agree with.

But the point I think the author is trying to make is that whether you do or don’t use a framework, you need to understand the fundamentals. The fundamental language of a browser has always been HTML. JavaScript and CSS are great and came along in due time but before all that there was HTML. So whether you’re simply marking up a document or building a full-fledged web app with React or Vue, you’re doing yourself a disservice by not learning and using proper HTML.

Re: HTML is the Web

#243

Post by joemi »

buboard wrote: post #241
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my webpages had the valid xhtml badge! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Valid_XHTML_1.0.svg I still have a hard time un-learning ` `

> un-learning ` ` wait what ?

`` was the correct way in XHTML to do HTML5's `
`

(I think `` still works in HTML5 or maybe browsers just don't mind it, but it's not the recommended way.)

Re: HTML is the Web

#244

Post by kminehart »

lunchables wrote: post #234
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my webpages had the valid xhtml badge! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Valid_XHTML_1.0.svg I still have a hard time un-learning ` `

>I still have a hard time un-learning ` ` Oh boy, I'm supposed to stop doing that? Yikes ... when did that happen?

since blocking elements have been a thing, probably.

Re: HTML is the Web

#245

Post by Zelphyr »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #98
gargravarr wrote: post #38

The biggest takeaway is that HTML was originally designed to degrade gracefully. If your browser didn't support the intended graphical layout, it would still be able to extract the hierarchy and display a usable web page, even if you were using pure text (e.g. lynx). This kept the web accessible no matter what you were using. These days, none of that occurs. Just try switching off Javascript (I use NoScript heavily t…

> The biggest takeaway is that HTML was originally designed to degrade gracefully. ... These days, none of that occurs. This can be directly attributed to the fact that the purpose of the average webpage is no longer to convey information, but to display ads. I frequently see people say that if a site doesn't allow people with an ad blocker to read their content, they immediately bounce off the site, and that site lo…

I hate to say it because I’m one of those people who bounce at a “turn off your ad blocker” notice but you’re absolutely right, and I had never considered before the fact that they don’t care that they’re losing my page view. They just want that ad impression. What a sad state we’re in right now.

Re: HTML is the Web

#246

Post by SahAssar »

SquareWheel wrote: post #236
SahAssar wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebAssembly does not replace CSS or HTML unless you render everything to a ` ` which would loose most of the benefits of the web.

I understand that. But wasm sure does fit the description of "compilation target for the web".

For logic, yes, but not for visuals, interactions, or anything that needs to interact with anything besides itself.

So it might be "compilation target for JS engines", but it sure as hell isn't "compilation target for the web". The web is so much more than just running logic in a browser.

That might come in the future, but it sure isn't the present.

Re: HTML is the Web

#247

Post by notoverthere »

ry4nolson wrote: post #173
notoverthere wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my! I didn't believe that code example you just gave, so I had to go look it up for myself. I'm astounded. https://semantic-ui.com/elements/list.html#list

to be somewhat/slightly fair, the very next example talks about using a `ul` for the list.

But according to the docs that's "for convenience". Its semantic value isn't discussed.

So presumably the 'proper' way to do it, if you're not looking for convenience, is to use `div`s. /s

Re: HTML is the Web

#248

Post by buboard »

joemi wrote: post #243
buboard wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> un-learning ` ` wait what ?

` ` was the correct way in XHTML to do HTML5's ` ` (I think ` ` still works in HTML5 or maybe browsers just don't mind it, but it's not the recommended way.)

thanks i never got the news, i hope browsers dont hate me

Re: HTML is the Web

#249

Post by goatlover »

titanix88 wrote: post #109

It's kind of funny to think about how web was supposed to be extensible with 'type' attribute for script and style tags,but everyone forgot to implement anything other than 'text/css' and 'application/javascript'. Why did it happen?

VBScript and Dart were a thing, but they were vendor-specific. Netscape had Javascript Style Sheets in the 90s, where you get the full power of a PL for styling. Then you had Java and Flash through plugins, but they weren't first class citizens with the DOM. However, Sun and Netscape did originally intend Java to be embedded in Netscape alongside JS, but it didn't happen, so Java went the plugin route.

People have tried, but getting the rest of the world to agree is the hard part.

Re: HTML is the Web

#250

Post by BlueTemplar »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #141
flohofwoe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of this isn't a given anymore with software vendors going subscription-only like Adobe's Creative Cloud. On the other hand, PWAs (Progressive Web Apps) also work in offline mode without a "traditional" installation step.

Not even Steam works like that. Stay offline for 30 days (iirc) and try to play the games you paid for.

There are many things one could blame Steam for, but AFAIK this limitation has been removed years ago.
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