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HTML is the Web

petelambert.com

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Re: HTML is the Web

#221

Post by SahAssar »

enlyth wrote: post #29
ksec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My usage, as well as majority of friends that are non-geek, involves around - Scrolling through IG, Facebook, other Social Media, Forums, Online Shopping and News Site. Along with Video that in itself is a category as well as well as used within the previous few categories. News is arguably the biggest addiction of the 21st century, and IG, Facebook, Forum, are all really just "news". News about your friends, family,…

This is grossly underestimating the complexity of IG, FB and the likes. Everyone likes to tell other people how they should build their stuff, that's the easy part. Do you think React would have been created if "HTML and a little Javascript for interactivity" was enough for Facebook to deliver the UX they wanted to? No, there was a business need, and what existed simply wasn't good enough, maintainable enough or easy…

React for the most part is about producing HTML (the DOM/VDOM part) and a "little JS" (eventhandlers/interaction/updates). Any single react element is pretty easily expressed in simple JS, the thing that react and other frameworks do is to tie a few hundred/thousand of them together, which is what is hard.

The resulting HTML that it outputs should still be readable and semantic though.

Re: HTML is the Web

#222

Post by Slashbot »

HTML used to be the web...

Now its a JavaScrap infested pile of fucking broken shit... No Thanks to the biggest fucking criminals of the web... GOOGLE

Will be nice to see that useless fucking monopoly torn into shreds.

Re: HTML is the Web

#223

Post by SahAssar »

SquareWheel wrote: post #132
thibran wrote: post #28

The web has become a compilation target. Vue -> HTML, CSS, JS

That's more literally the case with web assembly. With Vue, I guess I still see it as a form of transpilation.

WebAssembly does not replace CSS or HTML unless you render everything to a `` which would loose most of the benefits of the web.

Re: HTML is the Web

#224

Post by bo1024 »

rthomas6 wrote: post #110
bo1024 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to disagree, but I guess the real problem is that webpages on the internet are being forced to serve both purposes. Paradigm 1 - interconnected, hyperlinked web of text-and-content-based documents: open, accessible, amenable to indexing and tooling and so forth. Paradigm 2 - delivery vehicle for cross-platform, full-featured, somewhat-security-sandboxed, applications. I agree with the article that it's s…

Don't we kind of have Paradigm 2 on our smartphones and tablets? It's not perfect but it's something.

I agree it's better in some ways than the desktop programs ("apps") situation

Re: HTML is the Web

#225

Post by bo1024 »

_jwilde wrote: post #212
bo1024 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to disagree, but I guess the real problem is that webpages on the internet are being forced to serve both purposes. Paradigm 1 - interconnected, hyperlinked web of text-and-content-based documents: open, accessible, amenable to indexing and tooling and so forth. Paradigm 2 - delivery vehicle for cross-platform, full-featured, somewhat-security-sandboxed, applications. I agree with the article that it's s…

I feel like this gives an overly rosy picture of the past— The need to serve Paradigm 2 existed all over the place in the plain html days. It’s just instead of having standards-based languages for Paradigm 2, we used to embed janky Flash SWFs and Java applets, were dependent on single vendors to patch zero-days in closed source code, and had to pay hundreds of dollars for licenses for developer tools. Today’s Paradig…

Funny, I think you actually pinned that interpretation yourself - the post was meant to discuss use cases of the web today and doesn't mention the past at all! Regardless, I see your points, but I'd rather compare today to an idealized future and discuss how we'd prefer it to be.

Re: HTML is the Web

#226

Post by SahAssar »

Lowkeyloki wrote: post #198
myguysi wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use React/Vue and still write semantic HTML, no?

I mainly work in React. You can write semantic HTML up to a point. Things like article, section, header, footer, etc. are supported. But if you wanted to make up your own tag and expect it to act like a div, I think React would complain that it doesn't understand that tag. That's what I meant by "the promise of the semantic web". As I originally understood it, you could make your own custom tags that describe the int…

That does not match how I think of the semantic web at all. For example:

> make your own custom tags that describe the intent of the document

If you make up your own tags for everything then to a visitor (human, bot, indexer or otherwise) it describes nothing, since those tags only have that meaning on your site (and worse, they have different meanings on other sites). Semantic web or RDF or Linked Data or whatever you want to call it is not about describing your document within the context of your document, it's about making sure your document is understood in relation to all the documents that link to it and all the documents that it links to.

Re: HTML is the Web

#227

Post by SahAssar »

rangerpolitic wrote: post #204

The new approaches to HTML/CSS run directly counter to the specs sometimes. Take Bulma for example. They provide styles for titles and subtitles, but their examples use h1 elements. See: https://bulma.io/documentation/elements/title/ Why is that a problem? This is explicitly addressed in the HTML 5.2 specification. > h1–h6 elements must not be used to markup subheadings, subtitles, alternative titles and taglines unl…

I'm not a fan of bulma, but that is not a valid complaint. If you give a `h3` the class `title is-1` it will look like their example `h1`. If you add a `h1` without any classes it won't even have any of the styling of `title is-1` unless you add the classes.

If anything they are purposely decoupling the styling from the semantics to make it more obvious which one you are choosing (although the example could make this more clear).

Re: HTML is the Web

#228

Post by jonahrd »

> If you’re writing code that renders things in a browser, this is your job.

Nitpick: I write code that renders things in a browser. I do not touch HTML. I use GL/D3D/Vulkan and C++.

I'm not really sure what point I'm making, perhaps that the author might want to consider the other parts of the web/web browsers.

Edit: to clarify, I work on the lowest level of browser's rendering stack.

Re: HTML is the Web

#229

Post by rocky1138 »

microtonal wrote: post #166
yiyus wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently been using it and I am very disappointed. Some tasks that should be totally trivial are incredibly hard to get right and require platform specific solutions. Nothing unsolvable, but I was expecting a much more straightforward experience from a product that has been promoted as the cross platform toolkit since the 90s.

I co-developed a Qt C++ app of ~40,000 lines. I think the amount of platform-specific code was at most a couple of pages (handling macOS' behavior to keep an app alive when all its windows are closed). It is not perfect, but it feels a lot more native on every platform than virtually any web or electron app I have seen (including predictable keyboard shortcuts).

I don't have a large amount of experience but when I worked with Qt I was blown away with how friendly and cross-platform it all was. It's pretty close to write once, compile to anything.

Re: HTML is the Web

#230

Post by sureaboutthis »

ricardobeat wrote: post #178
sureaboutthis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "the browser" you mean "Internet Explorer". The only browser that couldn't handle XHTML.

With XHTML any syntax error completely aborts rendering, there is no fallback - the browser will display a native error page instead.

Has nothing to do with what I said. IE couldn't handle XHTML until IE9

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ie/2010/11/01/xhtml-in-ie9/

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