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Getting shot by a handgun

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Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#71

Post by hugh3 »

Zak wrote: post #59
someone_here wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any amount of material can be moved any distance with an infinitesimal amount of force, given enough time... or maybe I'm missing something.

It's the amount of energy required to lift one pound vertically by one foot, or the amount of momentum a one pound object gains by falling one foot in a vacuum.

Much of the confusion here comes from the fact that a pound is used both as a unit of force and as a unit of mass.

This is one of the many reasons y'all should use SI.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#72

Post by mquander »

cynicalkane wrote: post #63
zachrose wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never expected to hear that on HN.

It's reasonable to assume "hackers" reading "Hacker News" are expert enough in hacking to decipher computer talk, but unreasonable to assume they're expert enough in guns to decipher gun talk.

It's also reasonable to assume "hackers" reading "Hacker News" know how to use Google and Wikipedia to learn about things that they are interested in but don't understand, instead of asking others to dumb down all conversations to suit them.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#73

Post by ax0n »

cynicalkane wrote: post #63
zachrose wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never expected to hear that on HN.

It's reasonable to assume "hackers" reading "Hacker News" are expert enough in hacking to decipher computer talk, but unreasonable to assume they're expert enough in guns to decipher gun talk.

There are so many different kinds of hackers here, that I'd almost have to disagree. There aren't many folks here who could tell me all I wanted to know about Haskell, asymmetric encryption, the finer points of being a non-technical founder and the different strengths of various revision control systems. But all of us see stuff like that here every day. We either ignore that which we do not understand, or we look it up.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#74

Post by roel_v »

commandar wrote: post #58
bwhite wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound suppression is largely a function of relatively slowly bleeding off the gas that results from combustion. There is not much powder in a 22lr (22 long-rifle) round, which is why it is easily suppressible. I can make no particular comment as to the frequency of their use by the best hit squads in the world. The subject of the article was shot with a 22WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) round. This round can use the…

> There is not much powder in a 22lr (22 long-rifle) round, which is why it is easily suppressible. Also, .22LR ammunition is generally subsonic outside of hotter loadings. This avoids the characteristic supersonic crack of higher velocity cartridges.

My gun shop sells .22LR ammo, and at a premium, a subsonic version (or at least, cartridges in boxes marked as such). Of all the .22LR ammo I've shot, none of it was marked subsonic and all claimed to provide supersonic muzzle velocities. Wikipedia seems to claims that 'regular' .22LR is supersonic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Subsonic). Do you mean that most cartridges don't make their stated muzzle velocity and that in practice most .22LR is subsonic?

(as an aside, subsonic ammo is looked at suspiciously around these parts. since it's mostly used for poaching; when used with a home-made suppressor on a rifle, it's very quiet, like you say, in large part because of the lack of sonic boom).

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#75

Post by roel_v »

hugh3 wrote: post #68
cynicalkane wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reasonable to assume "hackers" reading "Hacker News" are expert enough in hacking to decipher computer talk, but unreasonable to assume they're expert enough in guns to decipher gun talk.

Ah, but there's an interesting point here on the social acceptability of non-expertise. If you post some expert-level stuff about physics or microbiology or linguistics or early Medieval French poetry then most people won't understand it but nobody will complain because they're ashamed (well, at least slightly) of their ignorance on these subjects. On the other hand if you post some expert-level stuff about guns or f…

Funnily enough I posted just this (albeit in a more biting tone) last week, in an instance involving Justin Bieber (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1982494), and was getting up/downvoted for a while just like you are until the upvotes won out in the end ;)

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#76

Post by Jetlag »

roel_v wrote: post #74
commandar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is not much powder in a 22lr (22 long-rifle) round, which is why it is easily suppressible. Also, .22LR ammunition is generally subsonic outside of hotter loadings. This avoids the characteristic supersonic crack of higher velocity cartridges.

My gun shop sells .22LR ammo, and at a premium, a subsonic version (or at least, cartridges in boxes marked as such). Of all the .22LR ammo I've shot, none of it was marked subsonic and all claimed to provide supersonic muzzle velocities. Wikipedia seems to claims that 'regular' .22LR is supersonic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Subsonic ). Do you mean that most cartridges don't make their stated muzzl…

Muzzle velocities are usually listed for rifle length barrels, sometimes absurdly long rifle length barrels to boost the numbers. 22lr out of a handgun length barrel will fall quite short.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#77

Post by roel_v »

PostOnce wrote: post #41
rdl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the ease of sound suppressing them, and the small size of the weapons, there is a reason some of the best hit squads in the world use the .22lr! Admittedly, a .22WMR is pretty much a different animal than the .22lr. Out of a rifle, it would have probably been a through and through, assuming a FMJ bullet -- you'd probably get 2000fps for a 40gr. A JSP might not have, and out of a Ruger Single Six, it's a lo…

Got any sources for that hit squads claim? Sounds fascinating. I'd read more. Relatedly, the world doesn't have enough good spy movies.

There is an infamous book called 'Hitman' published in the 1980's I believe, published by Paladin Press, that claims to be a manual on how to be, surprise surprise, a hitman. It recommends using a .22 for its ease of suppressability. It's a rather stupid for the rest, but what made it famous is that someone committed a murder in the way described in the book and after that the published was sued and the book got taken off the market. See http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/oldnews5/... .

I don't know anything about hit squads using .22, but in the (rural) area I'm from, .22 rifles are known as poachers rifles because when used with subsonic ammo and a homemade suppressor, they are very quiet.

That said, I'm not sure that hit squads are very concerned with being quiet. That Iranian virus expert that got killed the other week was blown up, the Israelis that killed the Hamas leader a while ago didn't even wear disguises and were filmed full frontal. From the targeted killings that make the news, being 'subtle' doesn't seem to be a consideration.

Oh and drug dealers who kill people don't care about being silent, either. All high profile shootings of the last few years in my area were with heavy caliber weapons.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#78

Post by roel_v »

Jetlag wrote: post #76
roel_v wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gun shop sells .22LR ammo, and at a premium, a subsonic version (or at least, cartridges in boxes marked as such). Of all the .22LR ammo I've shot, none of it was marked subsonic and all claimed to provide supersonic muzzle velocities. Wikipedia seems to claims that 'regular' .22LR is supersonic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle#Subsonic ). Do you mean that most cartridges don't make their stated muzzl…

Muzzle velocities are usually listed for rifle length barrels, sometimes absurdly long rifle length barrels to boost the numbers. 22lr out of a handgun length barrel will fall quite short.

Yes that's true, I was thinking about rifles only, but indeed for handguns it would be different.

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#79

Post by JonnieCache »

ax0n wrote: post #73
cynicalkane wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reasonable to assume "hackers" reading "Hacker News" are expert enough in hacking to decipher computer talk, but unreasonable to assume they're expert enough in guns to decipher gun talk.

There are so many different kinds of hackers here, that I'd almost have to disagree. There aren't many folks here who could tell me all I wanted to know about Haskell, asymmetric encryption, the finer points of being a non-technical founder and the different strengths of various revision control systems. But all of us see stuff like that here every day. We either ignore that which we do not understand, or we look it…

Surely there aren't many gun hackers in the world though? At least, not for very long...

Re: Getting shot by a handgun

#80

Post by msquared »

Just have to say, before reading all of this, REALLY glad this many HN readers and posters are into this topic. Thought I was the only nut that loved technology and firearms, guess I was wrong.

happy sigh

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