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“I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

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Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#141

Post by pjc50 »

Like Penn and Teller, it's always interesting to see a magic trick deconstructed. And it is a "trick" or a "routine", as much as anyone else's performance. It relies entirely on intelligence and the ability to think on one's feet, combined with a good memory of a stock of anecdotes that can be matched to the audience. Or at least a few stock ones that can be hammed up. The anecdotes mentioned (SHEEP and SHARK) are highly political, too, focusing on "EU regulations" and "health and safety"; mocking these is absolutely a staple of Johnsonism, and it goes down well with the soft-right and businessmen.

The haplessness is a routine that Brits absolutely love, and again it takes no small skill to be professionally hapless. This was also a staple of Wogan's performances; famously, for the big Children in Need telethons, he never did any of the rehearsals but came on and delivered a charismatic and funny performance - all night.

The problem is that Johnson is not applying for the job of chat show host, he's applying for PM, and this routine absolutely does not work on other EU leaders. He also appears to be entirely self-centered and amoral. Years ago having a daughter in adultery would have disqualified him ( https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/may/21/boris-johns... ), but in post-Trump times nobody cares.

http://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2017/12/11/the-two-cultures... : explores this concept at greater length. As a Cambridge alumnus I'm absolutely familiar with brilliance as a kind of performance. For those in that culture glib effortlessness is prized. An earlier example might be Enoch Powell's showboating on his Classical Greek paper - when asked to do a translation into Greek of a poem, he did two versions as pastiches of different Greek poets and then left early.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#142

Post by bhouston »

philjohn wrote: post #120

The thing people need to know about Boris is that 99% of what you see in public is a carefuly crafted image of a harmless, and somewhat likeable buffoon. If you listen to the recording of where he was talking with an acquaitance about supplying him with the address of a reporter for said acquaintance to "rough up" an entirely different man emerges, one who doesn't stammer and ham things up. Boris is a very calculatin…

So Boris, the Oxford man, has an "Everyman" shtick that has wide appeal. Smart man.

Politicians who are so smart as to become something else are a bit scary, hard to trust if they are mostly an act.

I suspect this is mostly for public consumption and he dropped this when actually working. Thus maybe it is just his interfacing with the people shtick. And then it is mostly harmless.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#143

Post by pjc50 »

magpi3 wrote: post #136
lmm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it feel more fraudulent if he "turned off the buffoon" as soon as he got backstage? When you perform a role that requires acting in a certain way, it becomes a part of you too; how many teachers come home and find themselves still in their "classroom persona" for a bit?

Do you think he continues this persona with his family? He must turn it off at some point. He cannot go home and tell his wife every other week how shocked he was to find that he was the main speaker. And yes I consider performers who clearly separate their personal identities from their fictional identities less fraudulent.

I'm not sure what he tells his wife, but what he shouts at his girlfriend loud enough for the neighbours to hear is currently a matter of national news.

It's clear that Johnson is, to some extent, "fraudulent"; he's certainly a man of dual loyalties (he earns more as a "journalist" filing one column a week than he does as a Minister). What's more interesting is why most of the rest of the media class seem to go along with it.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#144

Post by growlist »

grey-area wrote: post #66
ruytlm wrote: post #29

I am reminded of a post I once read[0] on how coyotes are 'too clever by half'; smart enough to realise how to win each skirmish, but without realising they're losing the metagame. Johnson strikes me as someone who has learned to 'hack' the skirmishes (e.g. by playing the fool when giving speeches as discussed) in order to win in the short term, but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long te…

but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long term detrimental effect his skirmishing has on the UK. He's not oblivious to it, he just doesn't care. Why should he? His ego is the only thing that matters, other people are a means to an end. He has the same low cunning as trump, I think he's quite good at reading people, and manipulating them, but others are just tools to him. He is remarkably s…

He did pretty well in London - certainly better than Kahn, who has been disastrous.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#145

Post by growlist »

crdoconnor wrote: post #36
ruytlm wrote: post #29

I am reminded of a post I once read[0] on how coyotes are 'too clever by half'; smart enough to realise how to win each skirmish, but without realising they're losing the metagame. Johnson strikes me as someone who has learned to 'hack' the skirmishes (e.g. by playing the fool when giving speeches as discussed) in order to win in the short term, but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long te…

He is a fool who pretends to be playing one. The upper echelons of the conservative party are not at all meritocratic - you do not have to be whip smart to get there, but being personable counts. He's made enough self inflicted strategic blunders. Nonetheless he holds a certain appeal for the upper classes in the UK. I don't think his appeal translates down to people who work for a living though.

Say what you like about Boris, but there is good evidence he's not stupid as lots of people would like to believe:

'Johnson excelled in English and Classics, winning prizes in both, and became secretary of the school debating society, and editor of the school newspaper, The Eton College Chronicle'

Also I think the whole upper class/working class dichotomy you present is kind of old hat these days (and somewhat patronising to the people you cite that 'work for a living' - whose viewpoints and aspirations are generally somewhat beyond merely hoping for an indoor toilet), often pushed by the left as an electoral tactic against the right (even in spite of the fact that all UK political parties are stuffed full of ex-Oxbridge types).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Eton_and_Oxford:...

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#147

Post by growlist »

0815test wrote: post #146

> Johnson excelled in English and Classics English and Classics... seriously, dude? That's good enough for working at Starbucks and McDonalds, I guess, but not for much else. Least of all for effective policymaking.

Not sure if you're kidding, but Eton is one of the finest schools in the UK, probably the world, so it's a bit much to be quite so disparaging. Also I'm guessing you've never heard of CP Snow:

'The Two Cultures is the first part of an influential 1959 Rede Lecture by British scientist and novelist C. P. Snow. Its thesis was that "the intellectual life of the whole of western society" was split into two cultures – the sciences and the humanities – which was a major hindrance to solving the world's problems.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

Edit: Boris was also President of the Oxford Union, assistant Editor of the Telegraph, and Editor of the Spectator, as well as two-term London mayor. Surely you must give him some credit! I suggest it would take an extraordinarily fortunate fool to be able to pull off a record like that.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#148

Post by vidarh »

growlist wrote: post #144
grey-area wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long term detrimental effect his skirmishing has on the UK. He's not oblivious to it, he just doesn't care. Why should he? His ego is the only thing that matters, other people are a means to an end. He has the same low cunning as trump, I think he's quite good at reading people, and manipulating them, but others are just tools to him. He is remarkably s…

He did pretty well in London - certainly better than Kahn, who has been disastrous.

The office of mayor in London does not carry enough powers for any mayor to be "disastrous". That's just ridiculous hyperbole.

Other than that, the views on London mayors tends to mostly follow party lines, so it's not a particularly worthwhile discussion.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#149

Post by lmm »

magpi3 wrote: post #136
lmm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it feel more fraudulent if he "turned off the buffoon" as soon as he got backstage? When you perform a role that requires acting in a certain way, it becomes a part of you too; how many teachers come home and find themselves still in their "classroom persona" for a bit?

Do you think he continues this persona with his family? He must turn it off at some point. He cannot go home and tell his wife every other week how shocked he was to find that he was the main speaker. And yes I consider performers who clearly separate their personal identities from their fictional identities less fraudulent.

> Do you think he continues this persona with his family? He must turn it off at some point. He cannot go home and tell his wife every other week how shocked he was to find that he was the main speaker.

I'm sure he has a life outside of his after-dinner-speaker persona, sure. But equally, I'm sure that parts of how he acts when speaking occasionally bleed over to how he acts with his family, and vice versa.

We all play different personas in different contexts, but even those with a very artificial role - actors, wrestlers, cosplayers - bring some of their "real" self into the role and vice versa. Indeed staying "in character" the whole time one is on set is a cornerstone of respected acting technique.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#150

Post by EliRivers »

bhouston wrote: post #142
philjohn wrote: post #120

The thing people need to know about Boris is that 99% of what you see in public is a carefuly crafted image of a harmless, and somewhat likeable buffoon. If you listen to the recording of where he was talking with an acquaitance about supplying him with the address of a reporter for said acquaintance to "rough up" an entirely different man emerges, one who doesn't stammer and ham things up. Boris is a very calculatin…

So Boris, the Oxford man, has an "Everyman" shtick that has wide appeal. Smart man. Politicians who are so smart as to become something else are a bit scary, hard to trust if they are mostly an act. I suspect this is mostly for public consumption and he dropped this when actually working. Thus maybe it is just his interfacing with the people shtick. And then it is mostly harmless.

It's certainly true that the harm he does is not caused by his Everyman" shtick. It's caused instead by his brutal incompetence.
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