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“I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

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Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#131

Post by monk_e_boy »

magpi3 wrote: post #109
dr_dshiv wrote: post #108

This was a fun read. My take is that politicians showing up to random award ceremonies and giving a canned speech is a normal situation, though. That he can give a canned speech in a way that seems self-deprecating and authentic, in order to entertain and connect with the audience, is impressive. I can understand why someone would feel that this is a form of lying. He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating cro…

> He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating crowds. My concern is the lack of people like this who share my own politics. The creepy part for me was not the canned speech. It was the attempt to manipulate the people at his table. The last minute arrival, the shock at finding he is the speaker, forgetting his speech at the table... I would also feel like I am watching a fraud

It's all staged. The late enterence, the demands for paper and pen, leaving it on the table and 'winging' his speech. He knows it all adds to his mystique, that sheet of paper will be passed around and talked about. He knows that he has been sat on the most influential table with the most influential people. He reminds me of great improv, that he takes a bit and goes with it. Shame he's being kept of the telly at the moment.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#132

Post by objectivetruth »

coldtea wrote: post #117
mikeymz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the subtext of that narrative - Trump did none of those things. People around him and behind him are responsible. I'm not saying that is true (probably is) but it explains how a dullard with his dad's cash can achieve what he has.

All billionaires have an army of support. Even if Trump didn't handle the details, he was still on the forefront on high end deals, not sitting in the back and letting some CEOs do them (which many heirs do). Lots of dullards with dad's cash just spent it on women and booze or lose everything, Trump kept it (if he didn't increase it, considering the bankruptcies and re-emergences) and made his name a kind of brand. H…

[dead]

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#133

Post by chippy »

DanBC wrote: post #125

> “Now, I accept,” he went on in an uncertain tone, “that as a result some small children were eaten by a shark. But how much more pleasure did the MAJORITY get from those beaches as a result of the boldness of the Mayor in Jaws?” A small reminder that this is a direct cause of Grenfell, where 72 people died in a burning building. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

could you explain your comment as I did a search on this page and saw no mention of this

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#134

Post by rurban »

jacquesm wrote: post #78
diego_moita wrote: post #42

As a non-British, I say that the idea of Boris Johnson leading Britain through Brexit sounds just like an orangutan riding a double decker bus through Piccadilly Circus: you don't want to be there, but you don't want to miss a second of this show. Sorry Italy! You're not the funniest country in Europe anymore. Britain just got their own Silvio Berlusconi.

Boris is much worse than Silvio Berlusconi, who is - predictably - following the money and looking out for his buddies. Johnson will happily ruin the whole country for a gain in status.

Certainly not for a gain of status. His speech was very well prepared to the target audience: Upper class cynicism, throw the plebs under the bus, nobody cares - the beaches do remain open.

And we'll entertain ourselves in the meantime, whilst the industry will have their will.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#135

Post by benj111 »

Arbalest wrote: post #122
benj111 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, its just Gen Xers are starting to retire, which doesn't jive with "number of good working years". And surely your mid 30s is when you start climbing the greasy pole enough to wield significant power?

Maybe a better way of stating it is, no longer busy with children, where millenials are busy with that as a distraction.

Maybe. I agree with the general thrust of you argument, and I don't think that really detracts from the argument either. I think it just comes down to differing interpretations of significant influence.

Gen Xers have reached peak power. World leaders and CEOs are probably overwhelmingly Gen Xers. Up and coming politician and Managers and CEOs of new industries are probably Millenials, they are currently gaining significant influence.

But as I said, I agree with you, so don't really want to argue semantics :)

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#136

Post by magpi3 »

lmm wrote: post #116
magpi3 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating crowds. My concern is the lack of people like this who share my own politics. The creepy part for me was not the canned speech. It was the attempt to manipulate the people at his table. The last minute arrival, the shock at finding he is the speaker, forgetting his speech at the table... I would also feel like I am watching a fraud

Wouldn't it feel more fraudulent if he "turned off the buffoon" as soon as he got backstage? When you perform a role that requires acting in a certain way, it becomes a part of you too; how many teachers come home and find themselves still in their "classroom persona" for a bit?

Do you think he continues this persona with his family? He must turn it off at some point. He cannot go home and tell his wife every other week how shocked he was to find that he was the main speaker.

And yes I consider performers who clearly separate their personal identities from their fictional identities less fraudulent.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#137

Post by magpi3 »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #131
magpi3 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating crowds. My concern is the lack of people like this who share my own politics. The creepy part for me was not the canned speech. It was the attempt to manipulate the people at his table. The last minute arrival, the shock at finding he is the speaker, forgetting his speech at the table... I would also feel like I am watching a fraud

It's all staged. The late enterence, the demands for paper and pen, leaving it on the table and 'winging' his speech. He knows it all adds to his mystique, that sheet of paper will be passed around and talked about. He knows that he has been sat on the most influential table with the most influential people. He reminds me of great improv, that he takes a bit and goes with it. Shame he's being kept of the telly at the…

Except none of it is improv. It is all planned.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#138

Post by notahacker »

coldtea wrote: post #117
mikeymz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the subtext of that narrative - Trump did none of those things. People around him and behind him are responsible. I'm not saying that is true (probably is) but it explains how a dullard with his dad's cash can achieve what he has.

All billionaires have an army of support. Even if Trump didn't handle the details, he was still on the forefront on high end deals, not sitting in the back and letting some CEOs do them (which many heirs do). Lots of dullards with dad's cash just spent it on women and booze or lose everything, Trump kept it (if he didn't increase it, considering the bankruptcies and re-emergences) and made his name a kind of brand. H…

I think the PT Barnum spirit comment is absolutely fair, but it's also true to say that PT Barnum was more unusually driven and genuinely fond of attention than a 4D chess player.

As for Trump, there's a theory fashionable in some circles that his speaking style is purely performative to simplify or reframe his genuinely sharp grasp of the issues for his audience. But it's undermined by his tendency to embark upon similar rambles about how his pilot said the airports should give airlines better equipment (?!?) and pilots are very clever and if the FAA isn't run by a pilot it should be in front of the sort of apolitical business audience where there's nothing to gain from not just doing the presidential thing and appearing to listen. Sure, nobody's saying his drive isn't exceptional or that the basic strategy of seizing media attention and promoting the sort of populist policies his opponents were squeamish about didn't work, but that's not the same thing as him actually being the smartest person in the room playing 4D chess to disguise it. His persona's at least as WYSIWYG as any other politician.

I think Johnson might be more deliberate in his unpolished approach, but I also haven't seen any reason to believe the whimsicality and studied flustered look isn't there mainly because he genuinely does prefer anecdotes to details and struggles to give a straight answer. The counterpoint to this Johnson story of charmingly chaotic speeches is a recent video where he's asked what he does in his spare time, and he appears to be making up a hobby as he goes along in a manner which just looks incredibly awkward. And yet references to this hobby (making models from boxes) in an old column suggest he was actually honestly trying to explain it! Would have come across a lot better if he'd told a joke about not having any spare time and thrown in a half-remembered story about how Winston Churchill spent his time...

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#139

Post by bubblewrap »

DanBC wrote: post #125

> “Now, I accept,” he went on in an uncertain tone, “that as a result some small children were eaten by a shark. But how much more pleasure did the MAJORITY get from those beaches as a result of the boldness of the Mayor in Jaws?” A small reminder that this is a direct cause of Grenfell, where 72 people died in a burning building. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

Not sure what you mean. But it seems society is making that compromise all the time.

For example road accidents seem like a better comparison? Many people get pleasure and benefits out of being able to drive, but a couple thousand people die because of it every year, including many children.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#140

Post by DanBC »

chippy wrote: post #133
DanBC wrote: post #125

> “Now, I accept,” he went on in an uncertain tone, “that as a result some small children were eaten by a shark. But how much more pleasure did the MAJORITY get from those beaches as a result of the boldness of the Mayor in Jaws?” A small reminder that this is a direct cause of Grenfell, where 72 people died in a burning building. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

could you explain your comment as I did a search on this page and saw no mention of this

Boris Johnson is claiming that red tape hinders business and that we need less of it, and sure some people are going to be harmed but that's counter-balanced by the increased prosperity of everyone else.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/boris-johnson-ba...

He was part of a government that promised a "bonfire of red tape", and that included building standards.

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/cameron-claims-victory-i...

> In a speech to the Federation of Small Business Cameron said 100 standards and building regulations were facing the bonfire – a move which he claimed would save around £60 million a year for housebuilders – or £500 for each new home built.

> His announcement effectively re-iterates the government’s commitment to trim down building regulations as part of its Housing Standards Review.

Grenfell Tower showed us why those regulations exist and what happens when you get rid of them - people die. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/grenfe...

From the Wikipedia article: "The national government commissioned an independent review of building regulations and fire safety, which published a report in May 2018"

That report is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/independent-revie...

There was previous criticism of UK fire regulation, that's mentioned in the Wikipedia article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire#Criticism_...

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