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“I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

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Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#41

Post by omeid2 »

doesnt_know wrote: post #24
Apocryphon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been said that George W. Bush already did that decades ago, shedding his New Englander blue-blood upbringing for Texan rustic.

I dunno, I don't think it's very healthy that when presented with a bumbling idiot in a position of power you start to think it's a big ruse and they are actually a genius. It's best to just assume they are in fact, a bumbling idiot.

> It's best to just assume they are in fact, a bumbling idiot.

That is intellectual laziness. Climbing the political ladder is no mean feat. Sure, serendipity plays a big role, you need to be in the right place at the right time but don't dismiss people's intelligence based on public speaking.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#42

Post by diego_moita »

As a non-British, I say that the idea of Boris Johnson leading Britain through Brexit sounds just like an orangutan riding a double decker bus through Piccadilly Circus: you don't want to be there, but you don't want to miss a second of this show.

Sorry Italy! You're not the funniest country in Europe anymore. Britain just got their own Silvio Berlusconi.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#45

Post by sonnyblarney »

whatshisface wrote: post #40
sonnyblarney wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point of the story was not that he was a 'good speaker' but rather, his foolhardiness is a populist act. Which implies that his kind of bumbling attitude in popular politics might very well be calculated, i.e. he's not a fool, he's brilliant. I'll buy that he's borderline genius with the populist bits, but I also believe basically everyone in international politics who say he's a clown, totally unprepared…

Suppose you were a calculating actor like this guy, and you wanted to insult him. Would you design the insult around his private persona, which only you and a select few were privy to, or around his public persona, so that the public will agree with the insult? If the truth doesn't matter to you, you will join in on the illusion of him being disorganized, because that's what the public already believes.

The plebs don't seem to be aware that he's disorganized and unprepared or lacking in knowledge - that's beyond the things they care about it seems.

Apparently, people 'like him' and his sheer popularity I think is most of the driving force behind his success.

Anyone who's paying attention (small minority in reality) seems to regard him as a complete idiot, however.

The Financial Times, his former editor at the Telegraph, obviously the Guardian - any serious writing about him is seriously derisive.

These are harsh words [1]

The thing I don't understand is what the Conservatives are thinking at this time? Are they simply looking at the polls showing him as clearly the most electable in an election? Because I can't believe that conservative MP's don't realize he's a fool as well. Maybe they think they'll be able to combine him with a solid Brexit negotiator, but I don't see that working. I just can't fathom Boris Johnson sitting down with Merkel, and whoever the new EU President is going to be, and doing anything material.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-...

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#46

Post by 895-grbtio »

Bakary wrote: post #37

This calls to mind the idea that our world is uniquely suited to psychopaths (or whatever the current DSM-V term is). Cities are too large for people to be held accountable as a villager would. There is too much information for scandals to have consequences. The thirst for confidence and charm is so intense that charisma or presence is by far the most useful quality a person can have. Modern life is filled with so mu…

Don't believe the hype. Lack of empathy is a huge handicap in life. People who are unable to imagine things from the perspective of others are often unable to correctly interpret or anticipate others' actions and responses. Managers with low EQ tend to not go very far.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#47

Post by smsm42 »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #38
whatshisface wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critically, he was doing it at random awards shows where his expertise wasn't relevant. You could probably pull this off with no risk to your reputation if you pulled together (I.e. put the "pulled together" tape in your mental Walkman) when it was expected of you.

I think the point of the story was not that he was a 'good speaker' but rather, his foolhardiness is a populist act. Which implies that his kind of bumbling attitude in popular politics might very well be calculated, i.e. he's not a fool, he's brilliant. I'll buy that he's borderline genius with the populist bits, but I also believe basically everyone in international politics who say he's a clown, totally unprepared…

Not being British I don't really have a skin in the game, but thinking about how well things have been going lately over there with the "serious" people, I wonder maybe it's time to question the value of their seriousness. If you're very serious total failure, then the seriousness helps no one.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#48

Post by jancsika »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #31
doesnt_know wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I don't think it's very healthy that when presented with a bumbling idiot in a position of power you start to think it's a big ruse and they are actually a genius. It's best to just assume they are in fact, a bumbling idiot.

In general sure, but when that person happens to be leading a nation, I would not be so quick to jump to that conclusion.

We're talking about a former leader of a nation for which the body of evidence is in. What is the evidence that he was feigning ignorance on foreign policy, national security, etc.?

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#49

Post by baybal2 »

That "sea change" in populism did not started just now.

I felt since around late nineties that Western and Eastern politics are getting closer with each day, to the point of convergence.

See, that "ultrapopulism" did not start with Trump and Co., it started with mainstream, centrist parties beginning to resorting to extreme political maneuvers and demagoguery at around start of millennium, with WTC attacks greatly facilitating that.

Whatever slogans the modern ultrapopulists operate, could've easily be taken for something coming from Lenin, Stalin, Pol or Mao few decades ago.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#50

Post by anonydsfsfs »

895-grbtio wrote: post #46
Bakary wrote: post #37

This calls to mind the idea that our world is uniquely suited to psychopaths (or whatever the current DSM-V term is). Cities are too large for people to be held accountable as a villager would. There is too much information for scandals to have consequences. The thirst for confidence and charm is so intense that charisma or presence is by far the most useful quality a person can have. Modern life is filled with so mu…

Don't believe the hype. Lack of empathy is a huge handicap in life. People who are unable to imagine things from the perspective of others are often unable to correctly interpret or anticipate others' actions and responses. Managers with low EQ tend to not go very far.

I think you two are talking about different things. Empathy has two components: cognitive empathy and emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to imagine things from the perspective of others, and lacking that is clearly a big handicap. Emotional empathy is the ability to respond emotionally to other people's mental state, and it's definitely not clear whether lacking that (as sociopaths do) is a handicap.
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