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San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

bloomberg.com

221–230 of 426 posts

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#221

Let's work through the logic here: San Francisco assumes that the existing controls on the purchase of tobacco products by minors are a failure. They must act. San Francisco's reaction to this is to ban all tobacco products from the city, for the children. This is perfectly rational. But wait, no, their reaction is to ban the harm reduction option and keep the worst tobacco product known to be the most addictive and…

Vaping plus flavored nicotine is marketed at kids. If vaping were strictly an alternative to cigarettes, marketed at existing smokers, as a harm reduction alternative then it would be fine. But it's not, it's marketed as a hip new thing, getting kids hooked on nicotine that would have otherwise never touched a cigarette. Also, that flavored nicotine smoke smells nasty. Most smokers tend to be aware that people don't…

You'd prefer tobacco smoke to vaping?? That's what the result of this will be.

Let's assume what you say is correct, that they're marketing it for kids. The correct action isn't to ban it, it's to ban the marketing.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#222
post #78

From the article: ``illegal . . . for online retailers to ship the goods to San Francisco addresses." Does anyone know how the government of SF would enforce that on an online retailer not based in SF? Tell them they've been fined, then sue them in state court if they don't pay?

The idea that my local government is telling me I can't have a perfectly legal product delivered to my home is infuriating.

I'm not from US so I was pretty surprised to see that a city would have jurisdiction to do something like that.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#223

The real reason this ban is good is because e-cigarettes cause lots of plastic (cartridge) and battery pollution. Regular cigarettes believe it or not are not as bad for the environment (even the filters break down after a while). I don’t think this health issue really matters because if someone is addicted to smoking regular cigarettes that only affects them. Pollution from e-cigarettes on the other hand is bad for…

That's even more foolish than banning straws. There are so many other worse waste producing things like single use takeout containers and Keurig pods.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#224
So I dug up the actual ordinance itself¹ and it turns out to not be a "ban all e-cigarettes" ordinance. It is in fact "ban e-cigarettes that have not received FDA premarket approval". Which is to say, if the FDA actually does their job and approves the damn things, then they can be sold in SF again.

¹https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=7111897&GUID=7C3...

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#225

From the article: ``illegal . . . for online retailers to ship the goods to San Francisco addresses." Does anyone know how the government of SF would enforce that on an online retailer not based in SF? Tell them they've been fined, then sue them in state court if they don't pay?

And if the retailer is out-of-state, is that interfering with interstate trade?

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#226
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that my local government is telling me I can't have a perfectly legal product delivered to my home is infuriating.

I'm not from US so I was pretty surprised to see that a city would have jurisdiction to do something like that.

The city I live in (in the US) collects sales tax from online retailers, so I am inclined to think that the government of SF has some way to inflict pain on the online retailers that ignore this ban.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think that this is a accurate statement at all. There are a few dangers to vaping. The biggest one is having a vaporizer that is malfunctioning and is burning things instead of heating them up. The complex chemical reactions are difficult to predict. But it has the side effect of tasting like shit. The second biggest danger is the flavorings. However the community has been very good at self-policing an…

You can get zero nicotine, but not everyone does. I know a few people who accidentally got themselves addicted to nicotine by vaping too much without really thinking of the consequences.

Seriously, "I know a guy who didn't think" is not an argument for prohibition (and probably not an argument for anything at all).

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#228
post #19

This is perverse given that tobacco cigarettes are still widely available. I can't remember the last time I was actually satisfied with a decision from the Board of Supervisors.

I think this is somewhat justified, smoking rates were decreasing nationally until e-cigs came into fashion, of course some conventional smokers switched which lowered the health detriments of smoking - but many more of the e-cig users are new smokers. I'd prefer a full ban but this is at least staunching what was a regression for public health. E-cigarettes, since their introduction, haven't improved public health -…

> E-cigarettes, since their introduction, haven't improved public health - they've worsened it.

[citation needed]

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#229
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I (as a college student) know more than 20x the number of people who vape than people who smoke. Smoking is bad, but vaping is becoming incredibly mainstream with young people to the point where it's a bigger health risk.

I really don't think that this is a accurate statement at all. There are a few dangers to vaping. The biggest one is having a vaporizer that is malfunctioning and is burning things instead of heating them up. The complex chemical reactions are difficult to predict. But it has the side effect of tasting like shit. The second biggest danger is the flavorings. However the community has been very good at self-policing an…

Wouldn't regularly functioning vapes be a danger to your lungs simply due to the heated air? I.e. at what temperature does vapor become dangerous?

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think that substance abuse (cigs, alcohol, heroin, etc.) is the reason why many of them are homeless to begin with. The right thing to do for them would be to medically cure their addiction, thereby making them capable of helping themselves. This is hard to accept for those who don't know how to cheaply and sustainably treat addictions.

Not just addiction, a significant chunk of homeless prople have a mental illness that isn’t been addressed. Given the way healthcare works in America (or doesn’t as the case may be) I’m curious how that could be addressed.

Mental illness exists mostly due to controllable factors. Those who don't know of or understand these factors consider it a mystery that requires medical management. Medical management is legitimately required due to evidence of genetic or structural damage only. It is quite overused otherwise.

Here are many of the somewhat avoidable factors that result in mental illnesses: (1) insufficient sleep (2) insufficient physical activity (3) serious infections (4) excessive stress (5) high BP (6) high bad cholesterol (7) insufficient omega-3s (8) unhealthy processed food intake and/or SAD diet (9) vitamin and mineral insufficiencies (10) side effects of prescription drugs, not limited to PPIs and anticholinergics (11) narcotic use or abuse

If you fix the above lifestyle factors, there would be far fewer cases of "mental illness".

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