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San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

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Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#161

Post by ladberg »

natermer wrote: post #123
ladberg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I (as a college student) know more than 20x the number of people who vape than people who smoke. Smoking is bad, but vaping is becoming incredibly mainstream with young people to the point where it's a bigger health risk.

I really don't think that this is a accurate statement at all. There are a few dangers to vaping. The biggest one is having a vaporizer that is malfunctioning and is burning things instead of heating them up. The complex chemical reactions are difficult to predict. But it has the side effect of tasting like shit. The second biggest danger is the flavorings. However the community has been very good at self-policing an…

You can get zero nicotine, but not everyone does. I know a few people who accidentally got themselves addicted to nicotine by vaping too much without really thinking of the consequences.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#162

Post by slg »

staticautomatic wrote: post #131
slg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you support methadone being freely available over the counter? After all, it is a valuable tool in helping get people off more dangerous opioids.

Why not? Heroin is essentially decriminalized in SF. I work in Civic Center and watch cops casually walk and drive past people actively shooting up every single day.

Decriminalization is different than legalization. This ordinance does not criminalize e-cigs.

I think criminalizing drugs leads to a lot of societal problems. I don't think legalizing all drugs is the answer to those problems.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#163

Post by sureaboutthis »

llamataboot wrote: post #15

All prohibition is asinine but this has to take the cake. Even if there is no way to prevent more kids from getting addicted to vaping (and that's a big if), having less kids and many less adults smoking cigarettes is such a huge win for public health. -- Anecdotally I went from 2 packs a day to chain vaping for a few years, health improved enough to start being much more active, finally weaned down nicotine, quittin…

When I broke up with my last girlfriend, she said one of the best things I ever did for her was get her to quit smoking. Now things taste better, she smells things better, and she's not huffing after climbing the stairs.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#164

Post by kortilla »

munk-a wrote: post #12
kart23 wrote: post #5

So all these people hooked on juul are gonna switch to real cigs. Nice.

Sure but... it's sort of crazy that juul has been allowed to get a whole new generation of folks hooked on tobacco. There's been a myth spread around that e-cigs exist solely as a more healthy alternative to traditional cigs - they are more healthy but those candy flavours have resulted in my office now having more smokers in it than ever before... and they're all under 23.

Vaping is not smoking. Tobacco is not nicotine. Learn the differences in health risks between the former and the latter and how much of a positive it is for people to transfer to the latter group before crying.

Vaping is so much better than tobacco than we should be discussing banning alcohol before vaping as far as harm to society is concerned.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#165

Post by eridius »

mullingitover wrote: post #26

Let's work through the logic here: San Francisco assumes that the existing controls on the purchase of tobacco products by minors are a failure. They must act. San Francisco's reaction to this is to ban all tobacco products from the city, for the children. This is perfectly rational. But wait, no, their reaction is to ban the harm reduction option and keep the worst tobacco product known to be the most addictive and…

Vaping plus flavored nicotine is marketed at kids. If vaping were strictly an alternative to cigarettes, marketed at existing smokers, as a harm reduction alternative then it would be fine. But it's not, it's marketed as a hip new thing, getting kids hooked on nicotine that would have otherwise never touched a cigarette.

Also, that flavored nicotine smoke smells nasty. Most smokers tend to be aware that people don't like their smoke and they make some effort to keep it out of people's faces, but vaping isn't smoking, it's vaping, and cool and less harmful than cigarettes, so who could possibly object to vape smoke filling the air? /s

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#166

Post by [deleted] »

llamataboot wrote: post #69
slg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you support methadone being freely available over the counter? After all, it is a valuable tool in helping get people off more dangerous opioids.

I support and advocate for 100% across the board drug decriminalization, so prob not the best one to ask.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#167

Post by bogidon »

Instead of writing short rages or immediately drawing party lines, those who enjoy consuming nicotine might benefit from writing openly and honestly about the fact that they enjoy these products. Perhaps mention the fact that current research leans in the direction that secondhand vapor is less harmful than secondhand smoke [1] and so vaping could be treated as more of an individual freedom.

Personally, I think society should allow adults to vape, though I believe there should be incredibly strong regulations against companies benefiting from the sale of addictive chemicals. The interesting conversation to me is how to protect children and inform the public while not compromising liberties that don't need to be compromised.

[1] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Comparison-of-the-effe...

From the abstract: "For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes."

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#168

Post by r00fus »

zdragnar wrote: post #24

I'll never understand why lawmakers think that fruit and other flavorings for tobacco are aimed at getting kids hooked. It's almost like they think no adult has ever enjoyed fruit or candy, and that making teens smoke plain cigarettes will keep them from being rebellious. I've tried almost every variation of ecigarette mod out there except mechanical mods, because I'm not an idiot enough to know I'm too much of an id…

> I'll never understand why lawmakers think that fruit and other flavorings for tobacco are aimed at getting kids hooked.

Do you have kids? They love what their friends have, and really really like candy flavors.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#169

Post by eridius »

zdragnar wrote: post #24

I'll never understand why lawmakers think that fruit and other flavorings for tobacco are aimed at getting kids hooked. It's almost like they think no adult has ever enjoyed fruit or candy, and that making teens smoke plain cigarettes will keep them from being rebellious. I've tried almost every variation of ecigarette mod out there except mechanical mods, because I'm not an idiot enough to know I'm too much of an id…

Adults like flavored nicotine too, but have you seen the ads? They're blatantly targeted at kids. Hell, I saw one once that showed a vape plugged into the USB port of a kid's laptop in class, where the advertising was basically saying your teacher won't know it's a vape.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#170

Post by joshanderson »

Forbo wrote: post #140
joshanderson wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ecigs are the cheaper disposable kind.

The vast majority of people I know that vape use refillable tanks. Is there some source you can point to that backs up the "most" claim?

You want to assume whatever is best for the environment. Worst case, if the assumption is wrong, we are preventing more pollution.
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