Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#51

Post by kreetx » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

padobson wrote: post #9

I can't help but think that Facebook doomed this "distributed ledger" possibility by trying to be first to market with a tarnished brand. The developing world would hugely benefit from a scalable technology that can efficiently service digital transactions. The piece demonstrates this with how quickly WeChat Pay and Alipay penetrated China. I can't imagine the possibility for prosperity when 3 billion consumers enter…

Although Facebook's brand is a bit tarnished then the general public doesn't look at it so negatively as we here. Compare it to, say, politics: plenty of corruption, yet we still have it around (and what would the alternative be?).

Libra will probably be a success, perhaps even a huge one.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#52

Post by MBCook » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #28

bndw wrote: post #21

What about privacy? Most of these Internet giants make money hoarding user data; will Libra open up a new dataset to collect and monetize for these companies? Will Libra transaction data be more thorough than what they're currently able to get from 3rd parties?

No worries, they're just gonna take a pic of your government ID and fingerprints for KYC requirements which are securely isolated in a vault in Switzerland where they will remain 100% safe, except in that rare instance where you need to buy a cup of coffee, and they therefore need to inspect all your records to make sure you're not funding terrorism. /s

From the various articles I’ve seen it looks like they don’t think they need to follow KYC because it’s not ‘real’ money.

I’m sure the government will have something to say about that.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#53

Post by reddygaru » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

I have a totally out of the box thought here.

I think Libra is a distraction from Facebook for people to forget Cambridge Analytica etc. FB may have unleashed this as a weapon for people to rally up or againast and Fb doesn't care if it succeeds or fails because it is a new category and doesn't affect it's bottomline.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#54

Post by MBCook » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

rookonaut wrote: post #23

Could the problem with the damaged brand be a reason why Apple is so keen on becoming a "privacy-as-a-service"-company?

I think Apple is doing that because they’re out of growth otherwise. They’ve sold most all the iPads and iPhones and Macs they can. The numbers may go up but nothing like when the iPhone was still growing.

Services is the only part of the business that may have more than small growth levels left in it.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#55

Post by soulofmischief » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

gooseus wrote: post #45

> The largest leap will come last: Libra as a genuine currency, not simply a medium for transaction. This will be function of volume in the previous two use cases, and is understandably concerning to governments all over the world. Well that's certainly an understatement. This is literally the only mention of government through-out the entire article. The only mention of banks is in the previous paragraph stating the…

Do you worry any Libra-centric regulations will have negative impact towards true libre currencies like Bitcoin Cash?

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#56

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

bndw wrote: post #21

What about privacy? Most of these Internet giants make money hoarding user data; will Libra open up a new dataset to collect and monetize for these companies? Will Libra transaction data be more thorough than what they're currently able to get from 3rd parties?

And how is this is different from the credit card companies? They’ve been selling transaction data forever.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#57

Post by simias » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #36

CrankyBear wrote: post #7

"Which, by extension, means that Facebook will not control Libra." And, if you believe that, I have a fine bridge in New York I'll sell you for a few Bitcoin.

What's the counterargument to this?

The incentives don't seem to align in that direction. What would be the point for Facebook to create a promote such a currency if they can't control it at some level?

I fully expect that even if the core of the cryptocurrency might actually be decentralized and not directly controlled by Facebook (and I don't believe that either, for the record) the practical implementation of this will give Facebook more than enough weight to shut anybody down if they so desire. A bit like how email is supposed to be decentralized but if these days gmail decides it doesn't want to play with you you're effectively screwed.

Facebook (and other tech giants) have absolutely nothing to gain from decentralization and privacy when their entire trillion dollar business model relies on siphoning as much data as possible. Anybody thinking that Facebook is somehow going to usher the golden age of cryptolibertarianism and the decentralization of money is frankly shortsighted. Then again, shortsightedness is a common symptom of libertarianism (or is it the other way around?).

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#58

Post by jeremyjh » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

This article seems to be making the claim that the Libra blockchain will not be viewable by anyone other the validators. This is counterintuitive - even if only validators can confirm new blocks I expected the chain would be public, there would be explorers, etc. Does anyone know if this question has been answered somewhere definitively?

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#59

Post by adventured » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #37

kabwj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developing world doesn’t care about the reputation Facebook has on HN.

> The developing world doesn’t care about the reputation Facebook has on HN The developed world does: "based on an analysis of SimilarWeb Android data, Jefferies analyst Brent Thill found daily average users for core Facebook have declined in the U.S., U.K., Germany and France over the last 12 months—although he notes sequential user growth across geographies in April and May. In the U.S., time spent on core Facebook…

> Poor democracies have no incentive to sign up to a cartel without rich countries' wealth

Of course they do. The cartel will easily bribe them - whichever politicians need incentivized - to leave the door open. They don't require much of an opening.

Visa is now worth more than every US or global bank - such as JP Morgan, HSBC or Bank of America - and worth more than twice what the largest tech company in Europe (SAP) is worth. Mastercard is worth 70% more than SAP.

These types of massive companies can trivially grease any and all wheels to embed themselves deeper into the global economy. What else do companies like Visa and Mastercard have to spend their extreme brand-bullshit margins on? If you're those guys, the only thing worth directing your flood of endless high margin profit at is to get locked deeper into the global economy. They can afford to purchase infinite lubrication for all practical purposes. Take Visa as an example. They have 50% net income margins - laughably extreme - because they have absolutely nothing else to do with their business other than collect the cash as it rolls in, and then look at ways to ensure their parasite position is perpetual and continues to expand.

Re: Facebook, Libra, and the Long Game

#60

Post by buboard » Tue, Jun 25, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

gooseus wrote: post #45

> The largest leap will come last: Libra as a genuine currency, not simply a medium for transaction. This will be function of volume in the previous two use cases, and is understandably concerning to governments all over the world. Well that's certainly an understatement. This is literally the only mention of government through-out the entire article. The only mention of banks is in the previous paragraph stating the…

Banking has existed for a few centuries, and state controlled money is something recent too, it used to be that multiple sources minted coins. And bitcoin which has existed for 10 years and is far more threatening to governments has not been extinguished.