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Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

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Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#91
post #61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but it's not really different with spinning rust. the solution would likely be similar: seal it in an enclosure to prevent intrusion of dust, scratches, etc.

> spinning rust TIL https://etherealmind.com/network-dictionary-spinning-rust/ > Spinning Rust – term for conventional hard disk drives with motors and using ferrous-based platters for data storage. Probably derogatory now that Flash Drives are beginning to replace conventional drives.

TIL? Goddamnit, how old am I?

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#92
A small prototype of this technology already flew in the glovebox of the Tesla Roadster launched to deep space on the Falcon Heavy’s inaugural launch (third launch just succeeded this morning):

https://medium.com/arch-mission-foundation/arch-mission-foun...

...it (appropriately) contained Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy.

> The Arch library that was included on the Falcon Heavy today was created using a new technology, 5D optical storage in quartz, developed by our advisor Dr. Peter Kazansky and his team, at the University of Southampton, Optoelectronics Research Centre.

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#94
post #45

Seems a bit of a waste to dedicate an entire 360TB disc to a single text document like a bible, which is probably just a few KBs... /s More seriously, they don't talk about reading capabilities (retrieval speed etc). And what if it gets scratched? What is the error tolerance? At that density, a single speck of dust could have dramatic implications... I hope this reaches industrial viability, because we desperately ne…

What would IMO be a better solution is something like the pyramids - something huge, with a lot of data written down / chiseled in without any weirdness like parity bits or binary code, and a lot of redundancy. Imagine the pyramids but made out of modern materials, resistant to erosion and earthquakes. Ceramics? Silicon?

Either way it'd have to be legible without the need of a microscope or computers. Write the same text down in a few dozen vastly different languages, so you've got a modern day Rosetta Stone.

And of course, build it somewhere remote and seal it. Bonus points for a stable atmosphere, fill it with a heavy noble gas or make it a vacuum.

(I'm not well versed in any related sciences, I'm just sounding off some random ideas)

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#95
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah isn't this '5D' yet another eye grabbing title? I think size and orientation are still 3D data.

And yet, in machine learning we regularly talk about dimensions 100 and above! Just because they eventually map to three special dimensions doesn’t mean it’s not useful to talk about the different degrees of freedom you’ve managed to use for storing information. What were y’all expecting? Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse?

[deleted]

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#96
post #87

I dunno, but it seems to me universities increasingly focus on press releases and marketing departments... 5D and 13.8 billion years? Phony. I know no sane scientist or enigneer that would say they use more than 3D physics. Sounds like catch phrases to sell. With such logic plain old HDD is at least 4D, because it uses CHS coordinates and magnetic orientation, to store data. To me such communication style undermines…

It’s perfectly reasonable to say you’ve increased dimensionality when you find a new physical property to store things with. If a CHS-addressed HD tomorrow starts using opacity or depth as a way to store 2 bits in each, obviously the dimensionality has increased. In ML, we regularly accept 100+d data (much higher for imaging applications). Even simple mechanical systems have large state vectors. I’m a regular critic…

The criticism that I am also willing to go with is that dimensionality in statistics / linear algebra / machine learning assumes abstract dimensions, where readers of popular science assume physical dimensions.

When the number of dimensions is so close to 3, and the subject of discussion is ways to physically store data, this appears misleading.

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#97
post #45

Seems a bit of a waste to dedicate an entire 360TB disc to a single text document like a bible, which is probably just a few KBs... /s More seriously, they don't talk about reading capabilities (retrieval speed etc). And what if it gets scratched? What is the error tolerance? At that density, a single speck of dust could have dramatic implications... I hope this reaches industrial viability, because we desperately ne…

Yeah, actual museum-grade archival is so much more than just having an aging-resistant media. You also need to be able to read and decode it many years into the future, which is really tricky to guarantee - you can't assume the future generations will know how to make a reading device and remember your formats/encodings. So it's a bit like unzip.zip problem.

http://rosettaproject.org/

>For the extreme longevity version of the Rosetta database, we have selected a new high density analog storage device as an alternative to the quick obsolescence and fast material decay rate of typical digital storage systems. This technology, developed by Los Alamos Laboratories and Norsam Technologies, can be thought of as a kind of next generation microfiche. However, as an analog storage system, it is far superior. A 2.8 inch diameter nickel disk can be etched at densities of 200,000 page images per disk, and the result is immune to water damage, able to withstand high temperatures, and unaffected by electromagnetic radiation. This makes it an ideal backup for a long-term text image archive. Also, since the encoding is a physical image (no 1's or 0's), there is no platform or format dependency, guaranteeing readability despite changes in digital operating systems, applications, and compression algorithms.

>Reading the disk requires a microscope, either optical or electron, depending on the density of encoding and could be combined with an Optical Character Recognition system to read the text back into digital formats relevant at the time of reading. We are keeping our encoding at a scale readable by a 1000X optical microscope, giving us a total disk storage capacity of around 30,000 pages of text.

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#98

I dunno, but it seems to me universities increasingly focus on press releases and marketing departments... 5D and 13.8 billion years? Phony. I know no sane scientist or enigneer that would say they use more than 3D physics. Sounds like catch phrases to sell. With such logic plain old HDD is at least 4D, because it uses CHS coordinates and magnetic orientation, to store data. To me such communication style undermines…

And the picture they release show the christian bible. Tells you everything you need to know about them really.

A large number of people know roughly how big The Bible is. I think they picture was more about "look, this big book fits on this little thing", and less about some perceived proselytizing.

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#99
post #96
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say you’ve increased dimensionality when you find a new physical property to store things with. If a CHS-addressed HD tomorrow starts using opacity or depth as a way to store 2 bits in each, obviously the dimensionality has increased. In ML, we regularly accept 100+d data (much higher for imaging applications). Even simple mechanical systems have large state vectors. I’m a regular critic…

The criticism that I am also willing to go with is that dimensionality in statistics / linear algebra / machine learning assumes abstract dimensions, where readers of popular science assume physical dimensions. When the number of dimensions is so close to 3, and the subject of discussion is ways to physically store data, this appears misleading.

I agree that’s probably what’s going on, but “the university is making stuff up to look busy” and “no sane engineer would say this” and "clearly they made this up, 13.8Gy is mighty convenient" isn’t exactly a charitable read.

Re: Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for billions of years (2016)

#100
I have a question for anyone here who understands how this works: is the glass from the article resilient to physical shocks like falling/shaking/heat/other mechanical stress?

Documents that are meant to last a long time used to be written on vellum because it is a very physically durable material. I understand that this glass method beats existing digital storage methods for resilience, but does it best traditional analog/legacy techniques?

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