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Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

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Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#11

Post by eesmith »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #8
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

That's a bit of a mental leap. I'm no fan of the guy at all but saying that support for Trump == support for white supremacy simply isn't true. If their issue is with white supremacy why not ban that specifically?

[flagged]

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#12

Post by ralfn »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #8
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

That's a bit of a mental leap. I'm no fan of the guy at all but saying that support for Trump == support for white supremacy simply isn't true. If their issue is with white supremacy why not ban that specifically?

[flagged]

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#13

Post by eesmith »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #10
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

If your view is that the 60+ million Americans that voted for Trump are, in fact, really voting for white supremacy then we aren't even living in the same reality and any further discussion is completely pointless. It really hurts any credibility someone may have granted you in a conversation when you ascribe to one side of a discussion a world view that is condemned by the vast majority of that side.

Well, yes, I am saying that the millions of Americans who thought that Obama was a Kenyan-born secret Muslim (something our current president strongly supported), who support the artificial "Lost Cause" interpretation of the Civil War ("you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides"), etc. support white supremacy.

I mean, there's still a lot of people alive today who remember - and supported - the social policies of the Jim Crow era.

Funny about all the support for cheaply constructed statues in support of the traitors of the Civil War, justified by 'preserving our heritage', and yet "People keep shooting sign marking where Emmett Till died ... people in the community have widely interpreted the act as evidence of persistent racism and avoidance of Till's brutal killing and its legacy" - https://www.al.com/news/2018/08/people_keep_shooting_sign_ma... .

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#14

Post by aantthony »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #10
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

If your view is that the 60+ million Americans that voted for Trump are, in fact, really voting for white supremacy then we aren't even living in the same reality and any further discussion is completely pointless. It really hurts any credibility someone may have granted you in a conversation when you ascribe to one side of a discussion a world view that is condemned by the vast majority of that side.

When they say "Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy" as if it were an undisputed fact, and without any argument at all, it really shows how they're incapable of considering an alternative worldview. To an ideologically enslaved mind it literally cannot be denied.

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#15

Post by eesmith »

aantthony wrote: post #14
InvaderFizz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your view is that the 60+ million Americans that voted for Trump are, in fact, really voting for white supremacy then we aren't even living in the same reality and any further discussion is completely pointless. It really hurts any credibility someone may have granted you in a conversation when you ascribe to one side of a discussion a world view that is condemned by the vast majority of that side.

When they say "Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy" as if it were an undisputed fact, and without any argument at all, it really shows how they're incapable of considering an alternative worldview. To an ideologically enslaved mind it literally cannot be denied.

"Undisputed" is a needlessly strong statement, don't you think?

I mean, do you agree that the Earth is not flat, and not younger than 20,000 years old? Yet there are many Flat-Earthers and Young Earth Creationists who dispute those facts.

So, if I said "minimum surface distances between different cities on the Earth can be approximated using spherical trigonometry", would you then complain that I was stating that like an undisputed fact, and therefore incapable of considering an alternative worldview for the shape of the Earth?

In which case, I am indeed ideologically enslaved to a non-flat model of the Earth.

Aren't you?

And, why do you say they don't make any arguments? They wrote:

> Much of this policy was first written by a roleplaying game site, not unlike Ravelry but for RPGs, named RPG.net. We thank them for their thoughtful work. For citations/references, see this post on RPG.net: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-...

That in turn lists these "Policy Citations" arguments:

> 1. Racism and rhetorical alliance with white supremacist groups. This is a fairly thorough collection of citations in itself, not just a single tweet. https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/1054669092764966912?s=...

> 2. Hostility to transgender persons. [ https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-says-transgend...]

> 3. Attempting to ban transgender service members from the military [ https://www.sfchronicle.com/lgbt/article/Trump-ban-on-transg...]

> 4. He is personally hostile to both individual reporters and the very idea of a free press. [ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/trump-enemy-of-... ]

> 5. He mocks the disabled. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA ]

> 6. He mocked a sexual assault victim, to applause from his supporters. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m00qAeFHaQ ]

> 7. For the record, “Globalists” is almost always code for “Jews,” particularly if it’s in concert with anything about Soros. [ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/413356-trump-say... ]

> 8. When confronted with the fact that his rhetoric may be encouraging domestic terrorism, he has indicated he should maybe encourage it more, and has implied the press has it coming. [ https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-tone-down-bomb-threats... ]

> 9. He is attempting to stoke fear and violence in other arenas, as well. [ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-midt... ]

> 10. It is clear from context that his embrace of “nationalism” is a dog-whistled love note to white nationalists.

> 11. There are components of his immigration policy that cannot be supported by persons of good conscience. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_se... ]

> 12. Further reading on this and all of the above topics are freely available from any reputable news site. [ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/i-am-trash-migrant-child... ]

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#16

Post by RickJWagner »

Shameful.

It's fine to disagree with President Trump. It's fine to disagree with Democrats, too. Having an opinion is your right.

But to slander and lie, and try to influence people in this way is just wrong.

Let's be honest. President Trump has brought record low unemployment, rising wages, and justice reform to African Americans. His support among American Blacks has risen, not fallen. He is doing some good.

Yet there are people like this. They weaponize racism, ignoring it within any party but the one they demonize. They turn racism from something useless into something they can use. This is what is truly 'deplorable'.

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#18

Post by gemjam »

eesmith wrote: post #7
InvaderFizz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I miss something? The linked article looks to me to say that Pro-Trump views are not allowed to be expressed. Not that politics has no place in their community. If anything this is escalating the problem by silencing the opposition and further entrenching both sides.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

Trump's "white supremacist" policies: Move US Embassy to Jerusalem, acknowledge Israeli control over the Golan Heights, sign an aid package to give Israel $38B, inch towards war with Iran.

That doesn't sound like a white supremacist/neo-nazi.

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#19

Post by s9w »

eesmith wrote: post #15
aantthony wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they say "Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy" as if it were an undisputed fact, and without any argument at all, it really shows how they're incapable of considering an alternative worldview. To an ideologically enslaved mind it literally cannot be denied.

"Undisputed" is a needlessly strong statement, don't you think? I mean, do you agree that the Earth is not flat, and not younger than 20,000 years old? Yet there are many Flat-Earthers and Young Earth Creationists who dispute those facts. So, if I said "minimum surface distances between different cities on the Earth can be approximated using spherical trigonometry", would you then complain that I was stating that lik…

2. ?? There are men and women, nothing else

3. These people have an astronomic suicide risk. Not exactly fit for military

5. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5myu6x/let_me_c...

7. Criticism of a Jewish person is not anti-semitism. Criticism of Soros is very rational.

This is one of the most insane threads I've ever seen on HN.

Re: Ravelry, a Popular Knitting Site, Bans Pro-Trump Content

#20

Post by eesmith »

gemjam wrote: post #18
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Escalating what problem? Their policy is at https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump . Their argument is "We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy." So by "both sides" it seems like you mean the one side in favor of white supremacy, and the other side not in favor of white supremacy…

Trump's "white supremacist" policies: Move US Embassy to Jerusalem, acknowledge Israeli control over the Golan Heights, sign an aid package to give Israel $38B, inch towards war with Iran. That doesn't sound like a white supremacist/neo-nazi.

"Neo-nazi" is irrelevant. There's no reason to include it. The US history of white supremacy is far older than Nazism or even fascism.

I feel that you're bringing up international politics in a discussion about US domestic politics is mostly meant to derail the conversation.

You realize that more factors are involved than just white supremacy, right?

BTW, the $38B 10-year military-assistance Memorandum of Understanding was signed on September 14, 2016 during the Obama administration, and "partly a response to the nuclear deal that the United States and other world powers finalized with Iran". https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/09/un... .

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