Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 102 posts

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#61

Post by arbuge »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #52
foxfired wrote: post #39

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing…

Whatever you do, don't raid your 401k or retirement plans to pay these kinds of debts. I'd also take a very strong position that you're only going to pay up to your out of pocket maximum, and file a regulatory complaint over any balance billing or failure to cover services above that. State regulations matter a hell of a lot here. I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident…

> I'm seriously considering moving to Texas because of debtor laws - any health incident can cause one to accumulate a large amount of "debt" in a hurry, and being able to tell creditors to pound sand gives a hell of a lot of peace of mind.

Can you elaborate on this? What is so favorable about Texas law specifically as far as debtors are concerned?

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#62

Post by jason_slack »

foxfired wrote: post #39

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing…

I was born at 5.5 months weighing just shy of 1.8 pounds. I was in a “toaster”, as my dad has put it, for many months. This is in New York.

My parents had no insurance and never paid the hospital anywhere close to the amount. But this was 1977 so cheaper than your bill.

Can HN help out? If you set up a GoFundMe account I will donate or I can send you a gift card to a grocery store of your choice.

Congratulations on your babies and time will fix the financial concerns. For now your babies are the most important thing.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#63

Post by whamlastxmas »

RHSeeger wrote: post #35
TuringNYC wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Not all companies give you such options 2. A lot of the cost is in fine print of things not covered, e.g. during our delivery two of the many many medical personnel were out of network and we ended up paying a huge co-pay for that — but it wasn’t like we could have checked ids for each doctor entering the room etc for insurance acceptance. They entered, they did something, they billed.

I feel like a law should be passed saying that, for any patient with a medical networks, any out of network related charges must be signed off on; individually. Failing that, record yourself telling the hospital staff (or get it in writing) that any out of network charges will not be payed unless expressly signed for ahead of time.

Or maybe we can just pass a law saying everyone deserves access to healthcare and have a single payer system to avoid this bullshit

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#64

Post by onemoresoop »

souprock wrote: post #51
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you home schooling? In CA, depending on where you live, it costs the state and tax payers 10-14k/annum per child. That’s for 12 years. Dozen kids would cost about 1.6 million for 12 years of public education. ETA: I just saw that you mentioned homeschooling. If it’s ok to ask, how much are your expenses per month and do you own your home?

I get dual-enrollment for free here in Florida, which most of my kids use to get AA degrees, so the state/county is paying something. I spent about $1000 for AP Chemistry labs and possibly about that much on all kinds of textbooks. Expenses are primarily food, at about $4000 per month. The rest isn't usually notable unless something is broken, such as when our 4-ton air conditioner is low on coolant or gets the fan s…

How big a family do you feed on $4000/month? At first it seemed a bit high but I know nothing about your household so won’t play the assumption game. I, my wife and my year old spend at most 1000 on food monthly. We eat quite healthy but my wife cooks daily so that saves a bit.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#65

Post by gavanwoolery »

souprock wrote: post #24
gavanwoolery wrote: post #3

I'm having identical twins, classified as high risk. The cost is mind-boggling. I've already paid $7000+ out of pocket, and they have not even been born yet. Costs are mostly related to having to do ultrasounds all the time, and one MRI.

You didn't say why, which is fine, but I hope there is something more significant than just "twins" and that there is an actual intent to change treatment based on all that testing. If you wouldn't take specific action based on the results, then the exposure is unjustified. Satisfying curiosity is not a proper justification. See the Chinese ultrasound study. It's a study that is impossible to perform in the USA becau…

From the onset, they were classified as high risk due to being mo/di twins (monochorionic/diamniotic). It is now known that these pregnancies are much higher risk due to entanglement and other issues ("high risk" being a relative term). As it turns out, the doctors were right to assume this risk, as one of the twins has already received brain damage from (what they hypothesize) was inadequate blood flow.

I'm generally against anything but procedures that are absolutely necessary, and the ultrasounds and MRI certainly were not voluntary on our part. Personally, from all the research I have gathered it seems like ultrasounds are quite safe, although I am not an expert.

As for taking action, I had the same dilemma. Before we knew anything was wrong, one of the doctors ordered an MRI based on a hunch. I did not want to do the MRI unless it gave us some sort of information we could act on, and abortion was out of the question, legally and morally speaking under these circumstances. But we did it anyway, and at least the information has prepared us for what to expect.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#66

Post by gavanwoolery »

DoubleCribble wrote: post #26
gavanwoolery wrote: post #3

I'm having identical twins, classified as high risk. The cost is mind-boggling. I've already paid $7000+ out of pocket, and they have not even been born yet. Costs are mostly related to having to do ultrasounds all the time, and one MRI.

If your hospital is like many/most of all US hospitals despite only one hospital room, only one set of nurses and doctors, only one mother... you get to pay the full price of delivery charges for each baby! They should be required to hang a sign outside L&D, "Half a womb still pays for the full room." just so you don't have a(nother) heart attack when the bill arrives in the mail.

Oh I'm aware of this. They even charge double for each ultrasound!

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#67

Post by benmaraschino »

whymsicalburito wrote: post #42
foxfired wrote: post #39

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing…

Wow, that is a horrific situation, I truly hope it turns out well for your family. Does your policy have an out-of-pocket maximum? My HR department always gives us hypothetical situations and the out-of-pocket maximum is often portrayed as the saving grace that makes things like this not destroy your finances. Is this true or is my skepticism well placed?

Not always true. That OOP max often only applies to providers who are considered in-network for your insurance plan. Oftentimes, there's no way to guarantee that all the providers you see during an episode of care will be in-network; you could have a surgery with a surgeon who's in-network, and at a facility that's in-network, but get blindsided by a huge surprise bill from an out-of-network assisting surgeon or nurse or anesthesiologist, or by an out-of-network consult when you're in the ICU recovering after surgery. This is one example: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/us/drive-by-doctoring-sur...

There's been some progress in states (including CA) to cut down on these sorts of billing practices, thankfully, but it's still a major issue elsewhere, even if you have an ostensibly gold-plated health plan. Many plans are starting to remove caps on out-of-network bills, too: https://khn.org/news/2016-ppo-plans-remove-out-of-network-co...

I assume something similar may have happened to OP, but there are a lot of other ways they can run up the bill. These kinds of billing practices are insane and need to stop.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#68

Post by nicudad »

foxfired wrote: post #39

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing…

My second child had a problem at birth and out of an abundance of caution was rushed to the NICU unit in a nearby city. I agree this was reasonable. I also agree the NICU unit and hospital are professional, effective, and sincere.

After a few days it was clear there was no ongoing problem and absolutely no issues. He was not a preemie. At this point the bill would have been around $100,000.

But they insisted to keep him longer to be safe and we couldn't say no. Eventually he accumulated various hospital acquired infections and the stay had to be extended.

After six weeks he was released. The bill was $1.5 million.

Parents aren't allowed to say no. If they do it's evidence of neglect. And most parents wouldn't dare to and go with professional opinions.

Entering the NICU was a room where you had to clean your hands and arms thoroughly. This is good. Doctors and staff weren't required to use this room and never did. The argument is they could use the wash stations inside the unit instead.

So, what's the big deal? Well those doctors come in through the same door as visitors and they touch the door handle with their unsterile hands. Then the visitors/parents, having just sterilized, touch that door handle.

I brought this up and it was discarded as nonsense. After all I am not an expert and they are.

Yet still, subsequently, there was my kid, with an infection he got from the hospital. No problem man, only cost me a bit over a million. Not their issue.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#69

Post by tenebrisalietum »

mistrial9 wrote: post #19

Medical guilds, unions and financial players are mature, strong and in-place. Many if not most, are well paid across the spectrum, and therefore can afford their own services. Why bring prices down ? ps- if you think this is an endorsement of the situation, think again; simply a cold-blooded game theory thought on a most emotional topic

Your guilds will get disrupted with a OBGYNer or BirthBnB at some point.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#70

Post by souprock »

onemoresoop wrote: post #64
souprock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get dual-enrollment for free here in Florida, which most of my kids use to get AA degrees, so the state/county is paying something. I spent about $1000 for AP Chemistry labs and possibly about that much on all kinds of textbooks. Expenses are primarily food, at about $4000 per month. The rest isn't usually notable unless something is broken, such as when our 4-ton air conditioner is low on coolant or gets the fan s…

How big a family do you feed on $4000/month? At first it seemed a bit high but I know nothing about your household so won’t play the assumption game. I, my wife and my year old spend at most 1000 on food monthly. We eat quite healthy but my wife cooks daily so that saves a bit.

A few comments above I said "I have a dozen kids". With parents, that is 14 people.

We cook. I look for sale prices. We eat a lot of chicken, but we also get fish.

I count just 3 of you. Scaling up for family size and ignoring the sizes of the people, your $1000 would be $4666 for me. I guess I'm doing well to spend only $4000. Scaling the other direction, you'd be on a similar per-person budget if you spent $857 per month.

Post reply on HN