We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup • Hacker News Board

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#81

Post by toasterlovin » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #73

toasterlovin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific problems OP mentions are not due to high housing costs. What about rent being expensive means people have to shoot up or defecate in broad daylight on a public street?

When you have nothing else to live for you are more likely to turn to such escapes. The correlation is pretty strong, even though it isn't a strict cause-effect relation. Yes of course people who own a house do drugs. Some of them destroy their mind to the point they can no longer keep their house.

The simplest hypothesis is that drug use and mental health lead to homelessness. And if that's the case, then the problem isn't housing costs (though high housing costs are a problem, just a separate one), it's that people have addiction and mental health issues.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#82

Post by TheHypnotist » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #66

shafyy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oversimplifying here, but the homeless probem arises due to high housing cost and poor health care system. In addition to fighting the symptoms (which is already being done ok-ish), we need to fight the mentioned root causes. Unfortunately, the health care problem goes back to CA or even on a national level. Often times, mentally ill or people that lost their jobs for another reason become homeless, and from there th…

I dunno. As someone who lives in NYC where we really just don't have the same problem at all it's pretty clear there are some policy reasons involved too.

What problem specifically? Because, minus the open-air drug use, I've seen the same thing in NYC.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#83

Post by redm » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

I keep hearing that SF spends so much money on the homeless, but I don't see that to be the case. NYC spent $3.2b in 2019 [1]; they guarantee a bed for every person, every night, etc. If SF wants to solve the issue, look to NYC, and open it's checkbook.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-22/nyc-doubl...

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#84

Post by bluGill » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

silvestrov wrote: post #47

natalyarostova wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They spend vast amounts of money on the problem, but the way they approach the problem makes the solution intractable. To the extent the drug addicted and severely mentally ill homeless can want things, and want the right to continue their current life, they are afforded that right. That is to say, it is their fundamental right to use drugs, live, and defecate on the street (I know these things are illegal, but reall…

SF spends $250 million in 2017. 1/3 on actual homeless, 2/3 on preventing homelessness (e.g. rental subsidies). https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Bu...

That doesn't mean those programs are effective. Lots has been written on both sides of the political aisle on this.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#85

Post by throwaway5752 » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

asdfman123 wrote: post #67

As an outsider, at this point I have no idea why anyone would want to do a startup in SF. I mean, obviously, all the connections and resources are nice, but you are literally burning investor money on $5k/mo rent. That's absurd. Rent out a house in Austin, Texas for $2k and each of your co-founders can share a room. There's investors and as deep a talent pool as you'll ever need unless you're GoogleAmazon and you nee…

People in the Bay Area are just people anywhere and don't like burning 2 hours a day on the road commuting. You can hire them just as easily as remotes as necessary, given location appropriate salary.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#86

Post by jozvolskyef » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #66

shafyy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oversimplifying here, but the homeless probem arises due to high housing cost and poor health care system. In addition to fighting the symptoms (which is already being done ok-ish), we need to fight the mentioned root causes. Unfortunately, the health care problem goes back to CA or even on a national level. Often times, mentally ill or people that lost their jobs for another reason become homeless, and from there th…

I dunno. As someone who lives in NYC where we really just don't have the same problem at all it's pretty clear there are some policy reasons involved too.

Are you sure climate isn't the main factor? If I were homeless I'd go to SF over NYC due to the mild winters.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#87

Post by inferiorhuman » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

asdfman123 wrote: post #67

As an outsider, at this point I have no idea why anyone would want to do a startup in SF. I mean, obviously, all the connections and resources are nice, but you are literally burning investor money on $5k/mo rent. That's absurd. Rent out a house in Austin, Texas for $2k and each of your co-founders can share a room. There's investors and as deep a talent pool as you'll ever need unless you're GoogleAmazon and you nee…

I mean, obviously, all the connections and resources are nice

You pretty much answered your rhetorical question there.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#88

Post by balozi » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

I would imagine that the legal huddles alone (obtaining work authorization for instance) would present a multi-year mind-numbing experience, even with the advantage of deep pockets and well-heeled legal.

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#89

Post by shafyy » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

rolleiflex wrote: post #70

I'm a startup founder living in San Francisco, currently in Istanbul, Turkey, for a half work trip, half hiring. First of all the same caveat applies: if you want to live in Turkey, you have to know Turkish. Turkey is closer to France than Thailand in terms of tolerance for English, tourists get a pass, but otherwise fiercely protective. If you're not a visitor, you are expected to know at least basic Turkish or be a…

> If the country recovers and ends up being a more livable place, I do suspect Turkish engineers' willingness to move to even Berlin will likely drop commensurately.

After yesterday's vote, we're on a good path for this to happen :-)

Re: We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working on our startup

#90

Post by fucking_tragedy » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

justaguyhere wrote: post #34

shafyy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oversimplifying here, but the homeless probem arises due to high housing cost and poor health care system. In addition to fighting the symptoms (which is already being done ok-ish), we need to fight the mentioned root causes. Unfortunately, the health care problem goes back to CA or even on a national level. Often times, mentally ill or people that lost their jobs for another reason become homeless, and from there th…

Can't remember where, but I remember reading stats that a huge percentage (like a third) homeless people are military veterans :(

The largest percentage of homeless people are families. The largest causes of homelessness are job loss, arguments with friends and family whom they lived with, eviction, and divorce/separation. Drugs & alcohol are responsible for 15%, and illness/medical problems account for 7%. [1]

[1] http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017SanFranc...