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Raspberry Pi 4

raspberrypi.org

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#171

Post by KaiserPro »

hlandau wrote: post #17

>Are you still using VideoCore? >Yes. VideoCore 3D is the only publicly documented 3D graphics core for ARM‑based SoCs, and we want to make Raspberry Pi more open over time, not less. This stated intention and rpi.org's actions are simply not isomorphic. If they want to make Raspberry Pi more open, firstly, why do they publish only abridged (read: fake) schematics? [1] Secondly, why was rpi.org caught adding DRM chip…

> Secondly, why was rpi.org caught adding DRM chips to their optional camera addon board?

to stop counterfeit boards. There are many _other_ cameras that you can use for the rpi, so its not like they are trying to block out competition. its to stop people making illegal clones and ripping people off. (cough I'm looking at you amazon)

see semi official explanation here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=149426

The people that make the raspberry pi are a not for profit, they use the money made to sponsor children learning to code. Its not like they hide their aims: https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFounda...

tl;dr:

its to stop people making knockoffs, taking money from a foundation who are trying to educate an entire generation.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#172

Post by kingosticks »

nottorp wrote: post #168
nottorp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you're running off a sloooow sd card which may slow you down a bit if you compile stuff. Other than that it's just a normal linux computer. Mind, I've only done command line and text mode editors, if you want the full desktop and a ram hungry IDE it's going to hurt more.

Another important thing to mention: if you're compiling and logging to the sd card, buy a lot of them because they'll die on you. They're not designed for this many writes.

Or better yet, move your rootfs to a more reliable storage medium e.g. a USB hard disk drive.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#173

Post by imtringued »

ryuukk_ wrote: post #100
tmikaeld wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum 2x performance over previous gen(s) on every test with only ~1W extra power draw. That's seriously impressive!

they are better, modern, more efficient and cheaper CPUs in 2019 the fact that they decided to go with a 2015 inefficient one is kinda strange

Modern SoCs cost more than $35.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#174

Post by adontz »

shams93 wrote: post #97

I'm super excited as well. I figured out the secret sauce to get a low latency kernel build I was able to get down to 20ms latency but I'm excited to see if this can't get down to 10ms even though 20ms is acceptable low audio latency, already with only 1 gig of ram on a pi3 ardour is usable for multitrack recording, excited to see how this does with 4 gigs.

I would like to hear more about this!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#175

Post by kingosticks »

mustardo wrote: post #59
peterburkimsher wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a RAMDisk? https://hackaday.com/2019/04/08/give-your-raspberry-pi-sd-ca...

certainly a good idea for stuff / locations that have regular writes, just be nice to use a more durable boot disk, hopefully booting via USB storage is well supported

It's well supported in the model 3 now so that seems extremely likely.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#176

Post by stefan_ »

bscphil wrote: post #152
stefan_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The VideoCore 4 (fuck the roman numerals, for exactly this reason) can not output 4k and it is also not a ES 3.0 capable GPU. So this must be a 5 or 6.

I'm crossing my fingers here. This is really something they should have put in the specs if it's supported. With 10bit decoding and Rec. 2100 [1] support, this would make a fantastic platform to build a media center on. I'd certainly upgrade from the Pi 3 even though I don't currently have a 4K television. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2100

I looked at the dmesg from someones Phoronix testsuite run and it has:

[drm] Initialized v3d 1.0.0 20180419 for fec00000.v3d on minor 0

So this is vc5/6, not vc4. Additionally:

    Vendor: Broadcom (0x14e4)
    Device: V3D 4.2 (0xffffffff)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#177

Post by amelius »

hlandau wrote: post #87
ben_w wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis because I can’t be bothered to research it fully: Pi: “Hello we wish to buy a $thing” Vendor: “Certainly. We sell $thing for ten dollars per unit if it doesn’t have DRM, or five dollars per unit if it does.”

The camera PCB was made by rpi for specific use with the rpi. The DRM chip is not part of the camera vendor's assembly. It is a separate chip placed on the PCB, therefore placed there by the PCB designer, i.e., by rpi.

Isn't the use of the chip by the user entirely optional?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#178

Post by waterhouse »

rbanffy wrote: post #75
reallydontask wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are vastly better SBCs out there. Can you provide some examples please? Always keen to try out any alternatives

I'd love to see other interesting $35 SBCs with reasonable performance.

You might check out the NanoPi Fire3, which I think came out in early 2018:

https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&...

Has an eight-core 1.4GHz CPU, and is otherwise mostly comparable to the new Pi: 1G RAM, 1Gb ethernet. Has an SD card slot and no built-in storage.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#179

Post by hevi_jos »

Wow, they solved one of the big problems with raspberrys, ethernet was terrible.

Now for me there is another very important one for things that stay connected 24 hours: refrigeration. There is a need at least for aluminum cases with holes for wifi.

Right now only Chinese make those, so it takes a long time to get those.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4

#180

Post by hlandau »

KaiserPro wrote: post #171
hlandau wrote: post #17

>Are you still using VideoCore? >Yes. VideoCore 3D is the only publicly documented 3D graphics core for ARM‑based SoCs, and we want to make Raspberry Pi more open over time, not less. This stated intention and rpi.org's actions are simply not isomorphic. If they want to make Raspberry Pi more open, firstly, why do they publish only abridged (read: fake) schematics? [1] Secondly, why was rpi.org caught adding DRM chip…

> Secondly, why was rpi.org caught adding DRM chips to their optional camera addon board? to stop counterfeit boards. There are many _other_ cameras that you can use for the rpi, so its not like they are trying to block out competition. its to stop people making illegal clones and ripping people off. ( cough I'm looking at you amazon) see semi official explanation here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.ph…

Thanks to you and @kingosticks above for digging up these official accounts.

Cursory examination of rpi firmware suggests that this DRM logic is implemented in start.elf, one of the proprietary blobs required to boot an rpi. This is, in itself, significant, since opening this blob would obviously make this restriction easy to circumvent. In other words, rpi have taken design decisions which essentially motivate them not to open up these boot blobs, but rather use them as a chokepoint of control over the platform, see also [1].

From this, we can infer that rpi.org will probably never get rid of these boot blobs (as opposed to simply not having found the time/resources to do something about them).

[1] https://github.com/nucular/raspi-keygen

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