Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 249 posts

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#81

Post by wbronitsky »

elorant wrote: post #54
samcday wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kinda just stoking my paranoia here. I hadn't dug too deeply into whatbuying "carbon offsets" for flights (as a eco-conscious consumer, that is) actually entailed. But I suspected it was basically just planting N trees to offset the carbon emission. To play devil's advocate, is it possible that planting the trees at least helps in the short to mid-term? So let's assume we don't run out of viable land to plant…

No, it doesn't. First of all, you have to account for deforestation which is already happening in unprecedented pace. So while you'll go around planning trees, in some other part of the world people are chopping them down to provide more land for agriculture or to support the demand for wood. So the overall net effect might be zero. Aside from that, the fact is that you need a shit ton of trees to negate climate chan…

You seemingly just argued for planting more trees, in that if we did not try and replace the trees being cut down, we would have a negative growth rate of trees, which seems much worse than 0 growth rate. I’m not sure why you dismissed out of hand the argument, as it only took a hot second do deduce that it’s actually a good thing.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#82

Post by wbronitsky »

hudibras wrote: post #35
samcday wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kinda just stoking my paranoia here. I hadn't dug too deeply into whatbuying "carbon offsets" for flights (as a eco-conscious consumer, that is) actually entailed. But I suspected it was basically just planting N trees to offset the carbon emission. To play devil's advocate, is it possible that planting the trees at least helps in the short to mid-term? So let's assume we don't run out of viable land to plant…

> But I suspected it was basically just planting N trees to offset the carbon emission. No, this is not what happens. Check Wikipedia for "carbon offset" and "carbon credit" to learn more.

Please stop with the reddit comments. You can so so so easily post the information here instead of being pompous about it.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#83

Post by bin0 »

yters wrote: post #79
bin0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rapid depopulation What exactly do you mean by this, and how would you accomplish it? Assuming, that is, that nuclear doesn't work (for whatever reason), as you've drawn a dichotomy.

Dump some infertility causing chemical in all the water supplies. Or, nuke a bunch of countries, which has the added bonus of cooling down the earth. But, it's unclear that even completely eliminating humanity would reverse global warming.

Jesus Christ, you're not serious, are you? How evil can you get? The ends do not justify the means.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#84

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

icxa wrote: post #77
bin0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way this is happening is if the planet gets depopulated of humans rapidly. Please don't tell me you're one of those "earth would be better of were we all dead" people. I can't stand that kind of post-modernist, nihilistic garbage. I'm not mister optimist, but still, that's way too far. Also, that kind of rhetoric is going to end up being a justification for some one very evil doing some thing very bad. > T…

If these people really believed that overpopulation was the problem, then why don't they start depopulating with themselves? * It sounds terrible I know, but it serves to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the stance. Like George Carlin said, "I’m tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is that there aren’t enough bicycle paths. Peopl…

> You know what they’re interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat.

IMO that’s the wrong conclusion to draw. Its just natural behavior. Its simply an argument for localism and accountability.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#85

Post by dillonmckay »

midnitewarrior wrote: post #17

Telling a lie then saying 3 Hail Marys means you are forgiven for the lie, it doesn't fix the lie. As such, planting a tree to be forgiven for going on a flight that burns carbon-laden jet fuel doesn't fix what you did. Fossil fuels are excess carbon atoms sequestered safely deep inside the Earth. Unless you can find a way to put them back there, there's no fixing the situation. Planting a tree does capture carbon. H…

So, would it not be more environmentally friendly to bury, not recycle, plastics back into the earth?

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#86

Post by valw »

torpfactory wrote: post #39
midnitewarrior wrote: post #17

Telling a lie then saying 3 Hail Marys means you are forgiven for the lie, it doesn't fix the lie. As such, planting a tree to be forgiven for going on a flight that burns carbon-laden jet fuel doesn't fix what you did. Fossil fuels are excess carbon atoms sequestered safely deep inside the Earth. Unless you can find a way to put them back there, there's no fixing the situation. Planting a tree does capture carbon. H…

The optimistic side of me reads this as a call to arms for engineers. The political and economic calculations aren't stagnant. If there emerge better and cheaper alternatives, the market will usually make the switch happen. The key thing is the presence of better alternatives. We're already seeing this in action with electricity generation. Solar and wind are cheaper for bulk generation than fossil sources. A few inc…

Climate change requires a call to arms for everyone.

Many scientific experts don't believe that enhanced technology can be the main solution. True, technology can be a part of the solution, but changing our values and life habits are much more important. That's why top recommended environmental measure is carbon taxes, not subsidizing energy efficiency.

We've already made dramatic technological progress on our energy efficiency since the industrial era. This has never prevented our emissions from increasing - it's usually only made pollution more affordable and therefore more widespread; fuel efficiency in car engines is a good example of that.

Spreading the belief that technology will eventually save the day is not helpful, because it gives people an excuse to postpone changing their lifestyle, and we cannot afford that.

EDIT: forgot to post, Bret Victor is with you: http://worrydream.com/ClimateChange/

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#87

Post by shereadsthenews »

galangalalgol wrote: post #80
shereadsthenews wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually concrete walls have a foam core. Solid concrete is only about R0.5/in, about half as good as wood. Even so, insulated cavities are totally obsolete. Exterior foam is far superior.

What are the common ways to protect the exterior foam?

You put the building cladding, whatever it is, outside the foam. So usually from inside out: a wall, foam on wall, drainage screen, cladding. Can be brick, wood, whatever.

There’s also exterior foam cladding that’s made to be open to the elements but it doesn’t look great or last a long time either.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#88

Post by voyager2 »

ggcdn wrote: post #68
voyager2 wrote: post #60

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_earth_block Concrete can be replaced in part through the use of CEB/CSEB and/or rammed earth.

This is maybe okay for single family homes in arid regions, but not practical for denser forms of housing. Which we should be striving for, if we're worried about reducing pollution

CEB has been used for centuries in Britain. Arid is obviously not a factor. It's also been used for multi-story buildings. I'm not sure how dense housing reduces pollution though. Some of the least polluting housing in the world is rural, e.g. the Amish.

edit: I should have said "earthen" construction has been used in Britain. Cob rather than CEB.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#89

Post by torpfactory »

xcklo wrote: post #62
torpfactory wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The optimistic side of me reads this as a call to arms for engineers. The political and economic calculations aren't stagnant. If there emerge better and cheaper alternatives, the market will usually make the switch happen. The key thing is the presence of better alternatives. We're already seeing this in action with electricity generation. Solar and wind are cheaper for bulk generation than fossil sources. A few inc…

It is an engineering challenge, but not in development and innovation so much as in policy and implementation. There is a lack of understanding of that what is happening isn't a choice. It is an escalating situation where things you don't deal with today will cost more to deal with tomorrow. Something we and our societies aren't used to. Rather we are used to a Moore's law situation where things get better by themsel…

It won't get better by itself, hence the "call to arms". Engineers need to choose to work on, maybe even for less money or less job security, solutions which are so much better that policy and implementation will contort themselves toward the new paradigms. Politics is the really effective avenue to solve this but it is a lot easier if better alternative solutions exist.

I wanted to emphasize that the optimism can be a useful tool to gain motivation. Realistically I think we're in for a world of hurt, but being depressed doesn't motivate me like optimism does. It's a mind trick, not a realistic accounting of the current state of affairs.

Re: Cement Produces More Pollution Than All the Trucks in the World

#90

Post by agumonkey »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #75
agumonkey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the carbon gets re-released over time back May I question the veracity of this statement ? wood decay does release atoms back in the air, but some may be captured on the ground, some may be captured by the plants/trees nearby. I highly doubt 100% goes back airborne. Also there are other factors with more trees, they interfere with winds, create shadows. Some say massive forest also transpire humidity. All this…

> Some say massive forest also transpire humidity. All this might be positive to dampen climate change (if done worldwide). Caveat though: higher humidity + rising temperatures = bad. The more humid the air is, the worse evaporative cooling works, which means it's that much harder for human body to keep its temperature in check. For example, [0] tells us that at 46 °C and 50% humidity, humans can no longer cool down…

I thought about large scale higher altitudes humidity but fair point (although the less humans the better the climate statistics say)
Post reply on HN