Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#51

Post by flowless » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 11:53 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #42

You can do warm boot images (Sony's Linux-based Alpha cameras do this, for example), but these have to be tailor-made for each model... feasible for a camera manufacturer, impossible for a Linux distribution. But I do wonder why WBI generation and automatic usage upon first boot isn't more common (or possible at all)...

GoPro cameras run RTOS and one of the threads run Linux which is cold booted only once (or during an update) and stored for next fast hot boots - it was only used for providing WiFi and streaming functionality.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#52

Post by swebs » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:03 PM UTC

>When you turn on your computer, it instantly executes code in BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It doesn't take much time to execute BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It will initialize your hardware, scan your storage devices for operating system, and run the operating system. It is usually the operating system that requires much time for loading.

Eh, it takes from 10-15 seconds on my computer from pressing the power button to getting to GRUB. After that, it's only another 10 seconds or so to boot Ubuntu.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#53

Post by tsjq » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:06 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #52

>When you turn on your computer, it instantly executes code in BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It doesn't take much time to execute BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It will initialize your hardware, scan your storage devices for operating system, and run the operating system. It is usually the operating system that requires much time for loading. Eh, it takes from 10-15 seconds on my computer from pressing the power button to g…

> it's only another 10 seconds or so to boot Ubuntu.

that's nice.

is that on SSD?

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#54

Post by tsjq » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:08 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #22

galfarragem wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember the day I got a new TV (despite old CRT working) for my parents and see their faces the first time time we turned it on. Now they are used but at the beggining the boot time was difficult to grasp: it used to be negligible with the obsolete tech..

The old world was mostly stateless. Power = function. That said, even CRT had 'boot' time. The screen would need a few seconds to finally warm up and be fully on. But it was still a mind free system, you knew that your were done with the boot process and could enjoy 90% of functionality.

>The screen would need a few seconds to finally warm up and be fully on.

is that why we hear the audio before video is ready ?

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#55

Post by tsjq » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

Bakary wrote: post #14

A silver lining of long boot times is that you can contemplate what you are about to use the computer for and catch yourself in the middle of a habit loop.

haha. that's a good one.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#56

Post by fulafel » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:18 PM UTC

diego wrote: post #30

That is not a good answer. It's perfectly possible for computers to boot in a fraction of a second. The argument that computers need to go from a useless state S0 to a useful state S1 and that takes a long time is just bullshit. The question is, how close can you bring S0 to S1. This is a question of optimization. What happens is that S1 is different for different computer configurations, and processing needs to happ…

I think the same answers hold for a large set of "what's stopping us from making computers better in dimension X". You can explain the cause of the unsatisfactory state as lack of incentives and software inertia, and you can also say that it's fixable at a cost.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#57

Post by swebs » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:27 PM UTC

tsjq wrote: post #53

swebs wrote: post #52

>When you turn on your computer, it instantly executes code in BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It doesn't take much time to execute BIOS or UEFI boot manager. It will initialize your hardware, scan your storage devices for operating system, and run the operating system. It is usually the operating system that requires much time for loading. Eh, it takes from 10-15 seconds on my computer from pressing the power button to g…

> it's only another 10 seconds or so to boot Ubuntu. that's nice. is that on SSD?

Yeah, a Samsung 840.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#58

Post by tempguy9999 » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 12:30 PM UTC

galfarragem wrote: post #13

verisimilitudes wrote: post #3

Windows is a bloated mess, so it's obvious there. As for anything POSIX, it's because UNIX is shitware; it took a long time to boot decades ago and it takes a long time to boot now, because more garbage has been piled on top. It's possible for a good operating system to boot in less than a second, however. People have simply been conditioned to accept this unacceptable state of affairs, no different than a TV that ta…

I still remember the day I got a new TV (despite old CRT working) for my parents and see their faces the first time time we turned it on. Now they are used but at the beggining the boot time was difficult to grasp: it used to be negligible with the obsolete tech..

I'll beat that: I was watching a modern flat-screen fancy tv. It blacked out and rebooted while I was watching. Screw startup if they can't even stay up. OMG TVs can now crash...

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#59

Post by viraptor » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

verisimilitudes wrote: post #3

Windows is a bloated mess, so it's obvious there. As for anything POSIX, it's because UNIX is shitware; it took a long time to boot decades ago and it takes a long time to boot now, because more garbage has been piled on top. It's possible for a good operating system to boot in less than a second, however. People have simply been conditioned to accept this unacceptable state of affairs, no different than a TV that ta…

It's not bad and people did some good work on the boot times: https://lwn.net/Articles/299483/

There's nothing inherent to posix that stops us from booting in seconds.

Re: Why can't computers boot instantly? (2013)

#60

Post by gruez » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #8

A bigger question for me is, why can't monitors boot instantly? So annoying that a monitor that went to sleep can sometimes take 10-20 seconds longer to wake up than the computer it is attached to.

If it's really 10-20s, I'm guessing it's because it's because it's cycling through the various input sources looking for a signal.