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The V Programming Language

vlang.io

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Re: The V Programming Language

#281

Post by hutzlibu »

ScottFree wrote: post #256
hutzlibu wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit, yes. Except in cases where people make money from a limited avaiable fund, by lying.

He hasn't lied about anything. If you do a search in these comments for people who have actually given him money, I think you'll find that none of us have done so under the pretense that all the features he listed on the website are finished. We're also not "buying" anything. We're supporting a developer who is writing a language we would like to one day use. How else is it going to get written? Do we expect somebody…

I said very clearly, I am not judging about this case as I did not follow it enough. From what I saw I also do not think so.

Re: The V Programming Language

#282

Post by amedvednikov »

dom96 wrote: post #266
bscphil wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that the website now has "WIP" annotations on many of the claims. I'm not sure how recently these were added as this thread is my introduction to the language. My assessment (not a language designer) is that this is something that shows some promise as a transpiled language for people who want a Go-like language without some of the common pain points and are OK with having no GC. I would add that pe…

> It's worth noting that the website now has "WIP" annotations on many of the claims. I'm not sure how recently these were added as this thread is my introduction to the language. Indeed, many of these have been added just today. But even with the WIP tags many of these claims still seem false, for example, the author asserts that "V compiles ≈1.2 million lines of code per second per CPU core." but below that notes t…

> Indeed, many of these have been added just today.

2 days ago, but yes, very recently. Something I should have done from the start.

> Sadly it didn't seem particularly fair and it seems that V's author has decided to remove it after our debunking.

Araq's rude response didn't debunk anything. All points still stand.

I removed the comparison because it's useless, and only encourages flame wars.

Re: The V Programming Language

#283

Post by amedvednikov »

dom96 wrote: post #217
estebank wrote: post #162

In case the author ever reads this: assuming good faith, the effort and intent is laudable, but you've put the cart in front of the horse by having multiple amazing claims that would take many, many man/years to accomplish by experienced developers, which is why they've been received with a lot of skepticism. Even assuming a great level of skill, the claims a priori are hard to take serious, even before taking into c…

> Now that (part of?) the code has been released, it seems to be little more than a transpiler from V to C, with allowed inlined C, with most advertised features stubbed out. This is a little off-topic but I feel it needs to be discussed. The term "transpiler" that you've used here is a little belittling, not only to V but to other languages which are translated to C. I don't think its fair nor accurate to characteri…

> V does seem to lean very heavily on inlined C inside its standard library and compiler

This is completely false. Why are competing language developers so willing to spread misinformation? :)

There are 0 lines of C in the compiler.

The vlib has about 500. So that's 500 out of ~14k.

Most of it was added last spring when V just didn't have the necessary features. All of C code will be removed this month.

Re: The V Programming Language

#284

Post by mellosouls »

withoutboats wrote: post #230

It's pretty obvious that this person has essentially lied: they have not implemented the complex features they claim while they hype benefits like compile time and lack of non-zero cost features that will have to disappear when they have implemented what they promised. But I think what's more interesting, more telling, is the level of vitriol over 12k/year in patreon subscriptions. Funding in open source is so absurd…

An indication of why you might have been flagged and a pointer to the norms of this strange website are given in dangs request to us not to post as you have done, some time before you submitted the post.

Re: The V Programming Language

#285

Post by lifthrasiir »

kamaal wrote: post #279
estebank wrote: post #162

In case the author ever reads this: assuming good faith, the effort and intent is laudable, but you've put the cart in front of the horse by having multiple amazing claims that would take many, many man/years to accomplish by experienced developers, which is why they've been received with a lot of skepticism. Even assuming a great level of skill, the claims a priori are hard to take serious, even before taking into c…

>>Now that (part of?) the code has been released, it seems to be little more than a transpiler from V to C, with allowed inlined C, with most advertised features stubbed out. >>Looking at the project it is really hard to come away with an opinion that isn't one of "this is a joke", "this is fraudulent" or "this is a well intentioned inexperienced developer that has no idea how high the target they've set for themselv…

At least Perl 1 claimed to be a sort of replacement for awk and sed, and it worked great. Also Larry Wall was already known for his patch program even at that time.

Re: The V Programming Language

#286

Post by ScottFree »

esimov wrote: post #277
ScottFree wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't lied about anything. If you do a search in these comments for people who have actually given him money, I think you'll find that none of us have done so under the pretense that all the features he listed on the website are finished. We're also not "buying" anything. We're supporting a developer who is writing a language we would like to one day use. How else is it going to get written? Do we expect somebody…

It's not about founding or donation, it's all about false promises. How you can give false assumptions about something which does not exists and it's not provable. I'm thinking here about all the optimistic features the author is acclaiming. As some of the commenters mentioned practically is impossible to build a product (a new programming language) in solo and having only a couple of thousands of LOC.

You need to stop. There are no false promises or false assumptions going on here. If there were, then the negative coverage over the past three days would include outrage from his patreon subscribers and his patreon donations would have gone down considerably. Neither of these things have happened.

Re: The V Programming Language

#287

Post by ScottFree »

hutzlibu wrote: post #281
ScottFree wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't lied about anything. If you do a search in these comments for people who have actually given him money, I think you'll find that none of us have done so under the pretense that all the features he listed on the website are finished. We're also not "buying" anything. We're supporting a developer who is writing a language we would like to one day use. How else is it going to get written? Do we expect somebody…

I said very clearly, I am not judging about this case as I did not follow it enough. From what I saw I also do not think so.

You clearly implied the author of this project is a liar and now you're trying to walk it back without admitting fault.

Why is it so many people online can't admit when they're wrong? "I'm sorry. I was wrong." Is that really so hard to type?

Re: The V Programming Language

#288

Post by stefanos82 »

amedvednikov wrote: post #283
dom96 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that (part of?) the code has been released, it seems to be little more than a transpiler from V to C, with allowed inlined C, with most advertised features stubbed out. This is a little off-topic but I feel it needs to be discussed. The term "transpiler" that you've used here is a little belittling, not only to V but to other languages which are translated to C. I don't think its fair nor accurate to characteri…

> V does seem to lean very heavily on inlined C inside its standard library and compiler This is completely false. Why are competing language developers so willing to spread misinformation? :) There are 0 lines of C in the compiler. The vlib has about 500. So that's 500 out of ~14k. Most of it was added last spring when V just didn't have the necessary features. All of C code will be removed this month.

I think I have found a single line of C here lol:

Here it is: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/978ec58fe300929555786fdf58ca...

Please explain the use of `#include ` then, because as far as I can tell, this is a C header...unless I'm missing something here mate.

Re: The V Programming Language

#289

Post by hutzlibu »

ScottFree wrote: post #287
hutzlibu wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said very clearly, I am not judging about this case as I did not follow it enough. From what I saw I also do not think so.

You clearly implied the author of this project is a liar and now you're trying to walk it back without admitting fault. Why is it so many people online can't admit when they're wrong? "I'm sorry. I was wrong." Is that really so hard to type?

To quote myself from above:

"not judging about that case here"

Now.

"Why is it so many people online can't admit when they're wrong? "I'm sorry. I was wrong." Is that really so hard to type? "

You have something to say?

Re: The V Programming Language

#290

Post by ScottFree »

hutzlibu wrote: post #289
ScottFree wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly implied the author of this project is a liar and now you're trying to walk it back without admitting fault. Why is it so many people online can't admit when they're wrong? "I'm sorry. I was wrong." Is that really so hard to type?

To quote myself from above: "not judging about that case here" Now. "Why is it so many people online can't admit when they're wrong? "I'm sorry. I was wrong." Is that really so hard to type? " You have something to say?

> Except in cases where people make money from a limited avaiable fund, by lying.

> You have something to say?

Do you? Nobody buys your "clever" attempts to be "sneaky." You called this project author a liar. Period.

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