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Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

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Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#31

Post by dmix »

usaphp wrote: post #27
dmix wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Summary of the evidence presented in the complaint: 1) Using the same proprietary font in their logo was a really dumb idea: > https://i.imgur.com/7pYZ8bp.png 2) Alleges he engaged in internal meetings "outside the scope of his work at Magic Leap" in order to gain useful information, while simultaneously neglecting his duties at work as he planned to start his own company in China. Before launching a product that loo…

> Using the exact same proprietary font in their logo was a really dumb idea It’s not the same font. Similar but not the same. Look at letter L and A. They are different

"e" and "a" are the same but the "L" by Nreal is custom. Additionally the "n" in Nreal looks like half of the "m" in Magic.

Only the "Nreal" part is using the font FYI and only 3 letters directly overlap (e, a, l).

Magic Leaps offers a similar font LominoUI on their site but it isn't entirely the same as the logo font:

https://creator.magicleap.com/learn/guides/design-typography

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#32

Post by skellera »

cm2012 wrote: post #19

Edit: Deleting this comment. I don't know enough about the subject matter to speak as confidently as I was.

Magic leap has released something (although it’s not that amazing). It’s assumed that what is shown to investors is much too large for a consumer product but the promise is that they will someday get the tech to a consumer level.

I doubt they’ve been faking anything to investors like Theranos.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#33

Post by gamblor956 »

Chinese companies have a very long history of state-supported IP theft.

When a Chinese product so obviously mimics an American product--especially when the chief engineer used to work for the American company--it's on the Chinese company to prove that no IP theft occurred. They've lost the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#34

Post by shasheene »

The article reports on the lawsuit, but is light on details about the headset. Tested recently did a 10 minute review on this headset, the 'Nreal Light' [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9A9u-lwjTs

Regardless of the merits of the lawsuit, I can see why Magic Leap would be scared. The AR glasses looks great. They're certainly stylish enough for the mass-market -- they look like normal glasses at first glance, they're quite reasonably priced (at $500), and run from a regular Android phones via USB-C (for power, as well as sensor and video data).

For reference, here's the Tested review for current Magic Leap product, the Magic Leap One Creator Edition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrq2akzdFq8. It retails for $2295. Though it comes with controllers, eye-tracking for focal accommodation, two waveguides displays that are used to provide two separate physical layers to focus on.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#35

Post by gamblor956 »

paxys wrote: post #12
pvg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but crucially, does not allege that Chi exfiltrated any CI/trade secrets or infringed on any IP Their complaint alleges exactly that, repeatedly.

Nowhere in the complaint do they ever mention a single specific bit of technology, code, design or patent stolen by Chi Xu. Their entire argument is that he signed a confidentiality agreement when he started working there so should not be able to start a competing company. This is going to be next to impossible to enforce in California, let alone China.

A complaint isn't required to allege specific IP stolen. It's to allege general categories of IP stolen. Too much specificity limits the scope of the complaint and would require an amended complaint if more IP was stolen than originally alleged.

The next stage of the litigation process, discovery, is for determining the specific IP pilfered (if any).

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#36

Post by usaphp »

dmix wrote: post #31
usaphp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using the exact same proprietary font in their logo was a really dumb idea It’s not the same font. Similar but not the same. Look at letter L and A. They are different

"e" and "a" are the same but the "L" by Nreal is custom. Additionally the "n" in Nreal looks like half of the "m" in Magic. Only the "Nreal" part is using the font FYI and only 3 letters directly overlap (e, a, l). Magic Leaps offers a similar font LominoUI on their site but it isn't entirely the same as the logo font: https://creator.magicleap.com/learn/guides/design-typography

A is not the same. It looks similar but the cut on the bottom has different angle. Also looking at it closer, even E is not the same. In magic leap the top cutout is bigger than bottom one, in nreal they have the same, equal size.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#37

Post by gamblor956 »

dmix wrote: post #18
phonon wrote: post #3

Read the complaint here https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15787938/1/magic-leap-i...

Summary of the evidence presented in the complaint: 1) Using the same proprietary font in their logo was a really dumb idea: > https://i.imgur.com/7pYZ8bp.png 2) Alleges he engaged in internal meetings "outside the scope of his work at Magic Leap" in order to gain useful information, while simultaneously neglecting his duties at work as he planned to start his own company in China. Before launching a product that loo…

This is a complaint...it's the first step in a very long process of litigation.

In order to get to the next stage of litigation, it needs to allege just enough facts to make a "prima facie" showing (i.e., that it establishes at least some evidence of each claim).

If it makes that hurdle, the case proceeds to discovery, which is where both sides turn over documents, depose witnesses, etc., to determine the actual IP stolen (if any).

TLDR: it doesn't matter if the complaint is convincing. It's just the first step.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#38

Post by khuey »

mindgam3 wrote: post #11

The optics of this aren't great for Magic Leap. AR pun not intended. Really all this does is present Nreal as a legitimate threat to a company that raised approx 100x more money* before shipping a product. (* Magic Leap funding $2B+, nreal $16M ish)

I don't want to take any position on either Magic Leap as a product/company or on this lawsuit, but it's not at all unusual for R&D to cost far more than production. This is how drug development works: someone spends billions researching and developing a drug and gets a temporary monopoly on production. Once competition is allowed and prices are competed down to the marginal cost of production the generics are close to free in comparison to the original branded product.

So "Nreal copied Magic Leap's product after Magic Leap sank billion into R&D" is an entirely plausible explanation for the comparable results despite the dramatic gap in funding.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#39

Post by dmix »

usaphp wrote: post #36
dmix wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"e" and "a" are the same but the "L" by Nreal is custom. Additionally the "n" in Nreal looks like half of the "m" in Magic. Only the "Nreal" part is using the font FYI and only 3 letters directly overlap (e, a, l). Magic Leaps offers a similar font LominoUI on their site but it isn't entirely the same as the logo font: https://creator.magicleap.com/learn/guides/design-typography

A is not the same. It looks similar but the cut on the bottom has different angle. Also looking at it closer, even E is not the same. In magic leap the top cutout is bigger than bottom one, in nreal they have the same, equal size.

Oh come on, that logo type is extremely derivative of the Magic Leap one. n/m e, and a were essentially copied. They don't have to be exact copies to be stolen.

I'm very pro-theft in design as a learning and inspiration tool but it's extremely stupid when you both copy the logo font while also doing similar IP, when the cofounder worked there previously. It makes it look like they were baiting Magic Leap to complain. Even if the initial complaint is overall quite weak and the whole thing is probably futile.

Re: Magic Leap Says Ex-Engineer Copied Headset for China

#40

Post by ETHisso2017 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #33

Chinese companies have a very long history of state-supported IP theft. When a Chinese product so obviously mimics an American product--especially when the chief engineer used to work for the American company--it's on the Chinese company to prove that no IP theft occurred. They've lost the benefit of the doubt.

Xenophobia and disdain for due process all wrapped in less than 100 words. Someone get this guy a medal for brevity.
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