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Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

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Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#31

Post by gst »

jayd16 wrote: post #30

Can someone explain what this provides to users over, say, a credit or debit card? You don't have the rebellious notions of sticking it to traditional banks, not do you have (completely imagined) anonymity crypto fans have gravitated to. You don't have any of the intangibles crypto fans like. It just seems like Facebook wants a central bank. Who's asking for that?

Direct peer-to-peer payments: Those are currently a nightmare when you regularly travel. US: Venmo, Europe: SEPA, China: Wechat, etc. If Facebook manages to sign up enough stakeholders from different countries (that provide gateways between Libra and traditional bank accounts in their respective countries) Libra would provide a viable global alternative to the currently very fragmented market.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#32

Post by toyg »

olivermarks wrote: post #11
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same, but then it makes sense if you look at it from the sort of fuck-you attitude that FB leadership tends to have: "So you want to undermine us, fine. But what if we undermine you first?"

My read is that it IS the USD. '...it may actually cement the dollar as the world currency once and for all. As the Association mops up all the fiat in the world they’ll likely turn it into dollars on the back end anyway, so Euros and Yen become Dollars and cents.'

But it would still give them leverage, because cutting FB to size would then hit the USD.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#33

Post by hrktb »

gst wrote: post #31
jayd16 wrote: post #30

Can someone explain what this provides to users over, say, a credit or debit card? You don't have the rebellious notions of sticking it to traditional banks, not do you have (completely imagined) anonymity crypto fans have gravitated to. You don't have any of the intangibles crypto fans like. It just seems like Facebook wants a central bank. Who's asking for that?

Direct peer-to-peer payments: Those are currently a nightmare when you regularly travel. US: Venmo, Europe: SEPA, China: Wechat, etc. If Facebook manages to sign up enough stakeholders from different countries (that provide gateways between Libra and traditional bank accounts in their respective countries) Libra would provide a viable global alternative to the currently very fragmented market.

Can’t that be done through easily through Paypal ? (or Western Union, I just never tried)

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#35

Post by confounded »

aakilfernandes wrote: post #13

Libra isn't a cypherpunk wet dream, but it moves us in that direction and thats a good thing. This article is written from the perspective that crypto mass-adoption is right around the corner (i.e. just a few UX tweaks) and that Libra will displace the crypto-utopia that could-have-been. I couldn't disagree more. The lack of adoption is a combo of a 1) network "dead-zone", 2) reversal risk, and 3) regulatory friction…

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#36

Post by _eht »

confounded wrote: post #35
aakilfernandes wrote: post #13

Libra isn't a cypherpunk wet dream, but it moves us in that direction and thats a good thing. This article is written from the perspective that crypto mass-adoption is right around the corner (i.e. just a few UX tweaks) and that Libra will displace the crypto-utopia that could-have-been. I couldn't disagree more. The lack of adoption is a combo of a 1) network "dead-zone", 2) reversal risk, and 3) regulatory friction…

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

Nothing, really.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#37

Post by deif »

hrktb wrote: post #33
gst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct peer-to-peer payments: Those are currently a nightmare when you regularly travel. US: Venmo, Europe: SEPA, China: Wechat, etc. If Facebook manages to sign up enough stakeholders from different countries (that provide gateways between Libra and traditional bank accounts in their respective countries) Libra would provide a viable global alternative to the currently very fragmented market.

Can’t that be done through easily through Paypal ? (or Western Union, I just never tried)

You need a bank account with Paypal still. This is direct payment into your personal virtual wallet (supposedly not linked to your real identity) avoiding all banks.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#38

Post by gst »

hrktb wrote: post #33
gst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct peer-to-peer payments: Those are currently a nightmare when you regularly travel. US: Venmo, Europe: SEPA, China: Wechat, etc. If Facebook manages to sign up enough stakeholders from different countries (that provide gateways between Libra and traditional bank accounts in their respective countries) Libra would provide a viable global alternative to the currently very fragmented market.

Can’t that be done through easily through Paypal ? (or Western Union, I just never tried)

PayPal is not available in a lot of countries (Turkey would be one example). Western Union might work, but the fees are high and there's much more friction. In case you're based in the United States: Would you use Western Union over Venmo / Square Cash. If you're based in Europe: Would you use Western Union over SEPA? Libra has the potential to provide a low friction environment (like Venmo) supported by local companies that's available globally.

And while Libra definitely isn't perfect I think the set of trade-offs they chose are pretty reasonable. Another advantage over Venmo, Western Union, etc. is that the Libra will be run by a multiple independent companies, instead of locking you into a single company which is the case with the currently existing solutions (with the exception of SEPA).

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#39

Post by aakilfernandes »

confounded wrote: post #35
aakilfernandes wrote: post #13

Libra isn't a cypherpunk wet dream, but it moves us in that direction and thats a good thing. This article is written from the perspective that crypto mass-adoption is right around the corner (i.e. just a few UX tweaks) and that Libra will displace the crypto-utopia that could-have-been. I couldn't disagree more. The lack of adoption is a combo of a 1) network "dead-zone", 2) reversal risk, and 3) regulatory friction…

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

1) Irreversibility. You have a payment system with that small companies can actually build gateways to true cryptos. Not to mention the “high risk” businesses locked out or priced out of fiat gateways

2) Cryptographic proofs of payment. With that you can do a lot of fun stuff, especially with smart contracts. Going back to #1 you can make the gateway trustless

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#40

Post by est31 »

olivermarks wrote: post #11
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same, but then it makes sense if you look at it from the sort of fuck-you attitude that FB leadership tends to have: "So you want to undermine us, fine. But what if we undermine you first?"

My read is that it IS the USD. '...it may actually cement the dollar as the world currency once and for all. As the Association mops up all the fiat in the world they’ll likely turn it into dollars on the back end anyway, so Euros and Yen become Dollars and cents.'

Yeah, being a western currency, Libra competes more with RMB than with Euros or Dollars. It's more what the CFP franc is to Euros than an anti-Dollar. If the power grows too big, it may get nationalized like how the BEIC got nationalized.
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