161–170 of 199 posts
Truly jarring if this is true. The systematic persecution of and violence against political opposition is one thing, the oppressive surveillance another, but I think forced organ harvest (especially on living people!) crosses a line. What can we do?
It got 206 points in 2 hours, which is a lot better than most front page articles...
I have no way of knowing if this particularly is true. I am Chinese myself and lived overseas for most of my life, a year or so ago I backpacked around Xinjiang so I can certainly attest to the police state over there. When I returned from Xinjiang, I thought about it a lot and the only conclusion I could come to in the end is that human beings in aggregate are for the most part scum and cowards. It's conclusion that…
I can't do anything but to strongly agree with you on this point.
A lot of discourse for which I run into trouble on HN (and in real life as well...) is me tryint to correct somebody's wrongs, just to see somebody popup with "calm down man", "do not disturb peace", "do not make it a problem", " there is nobody right or wrong"
I can say the West has this problem, and it comes from attitudes of people higher up on social ladder. This unreadiness to be forceful in confronting wrongs is: 1. totally disgusting; 2. errodes things that make society a society; 3. will eventually cost dearly to the West
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See, this is pretty typical of how the Chinese are told about their own government’s abuses in schools and media: “but what about the other guy?!”. It’s just not a valid argument. It serves only to change the topic and justify nationalism.
> It’s just not a valid argument. It's not a valid argument for the Chinese to justify their practices, you are right in that. It is a valid argument for critics that are (collectively) guilty of similar abuses, however. In this case: why make China's abuses the issue of your vote instead of your government's abuses? The US government has limited power over the Chinese (and so your vote has even less), but it has ful…
It is absolutely vital that we do improve what we can and start with ourselves but we should not get carried away with that idea to a ridiculous degree. Someone who has committed crimes can and should still speak out if someone is committing something absolutely abhorrent in plain view instead of remaining silent.
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It’s one thing to harvest organs if the patient dies of accidents/natural causes, and personally I am in favour of the opt-out system. It’s a whole other thing of killing the patient on purpose to harvest their organs.
At least several thousand people are executed in China annually. Can their bodies be used?
In an already 'unfair' system adding profit motive to executions can only worsen the humanitarian result.
This is a controversial subject. It is important to get information from sources that have rigorous fact-checking and a reputation to defend.
How about the BBC, is that good enough? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-45474277/uigh...
I recommend getting information from sources like the BBC over sources like the "China Tribunal".
Truly jarring if this is true. The systematic persecution of and violence against political opposition is one thing, the oppressive surveillance another, but I think forced organ harvest (especially on living people!) crosses a line. What can we do?
Suddenly now the concentration camps are the lesser evil of stealing organs from political enemies.
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> It’s just not a valid argument. It's not a valid argument for the Chinese to justify their practices, you are right in that. It is a valid argument for critics that are (collectively) guilty of similar abuses, however. In this case: why make China's abuses the issue of your vote instead of your government's abuses? The US government has limited power over the Chinese (and so your vote has even less), but it has ful…
We can't go too far with this logic, though. Nobody's perfect yet I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone reflects on themselves, finds out they aren't perfect themselves, and just passively watches human rights abuses. It is absolutely vital that we do improve what we can and start with ourselves but we should not get carried away with that idea to a ridiculous degree. Someone who has committed crimes can…
Note that I'm not suggesting ignorance and passivity. I prefer this route: 1) get your house in order before you try to fix the world 2) start with small, achievable improvements 3) be just in your judgement.
> Someone who has committed crimes can and should still speak out if someone is committing something absolutely abhorrent in plain view instead of remaining silent.
Absolutely. Yet he may have to answer why his own abhorrent acts should be ignored, especially when they aren't from the distant past and he hasn't shown to be a changed man. The lion telling the tiger he should go vegetarian for moral reasons ...
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Many of us want candidates to go after Saudi Arabia, but what does that have to do with China?
Candidates only talking about one means that they don't mind about human rights, that they are only doing these for , economical reasons, someone wants to wage a economical war with China that will cost USA lots of money, but some companies will get huge amounts of money and power, so first you declare them the evilest country in the world and then continue. They did it with Afghanistan , later with Iraq. OTOH the ar…
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Yes, China is worse. It harvests tens of thousands of organs from political prisoners. It holds hundreds of thousands of minorities in concentration camps in Xinjiang. And that barely scratches the surface. The KSA needs to face severe repercussions too, but repression, censorship, and extralegal assassinations are all in a day's work for the PRC.
> It harvests tens of thousands of organs from political prisoners. Is this actually proven? > It holds hundreds of thousands of minorities in concentration camps in Xinjiang. KSA outright levels cities with minorities in them, so am not sure how they're better. > repression, censorship, and extralegal assassinations are all in a day's work for the PRC As far as I know, China does not repress women anywhere near the…
The PRC could easily dismiss this by providing transparency into its organ donor procurement system, but it takes a hard line on limiting all information about it.
Numerous eyewitness accounts also testify to the forced organ donation, though I find first person accounts less compelling than actual statistics and observing how the government actually behaves.
Cite on the KSA leveling cities? Or is this just a weird way to reference the (terrible) war in Yemen?