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“Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

morrick.me

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Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#21

Post by sdegutis »

meerita wrote: post #11

As a Macintosh user since System 7, I cannot be more in love with the old UIs and UX. I really enjoy the pixel era. Certainly, the introduction to OS X took Apple to a different level, but the OS 9 UI for me will be one of the best examples of the epitome of OS. Good in interactions, colors, details, sound feedback. I will always thanks Apple for such work poured on an OS.

This is kind of how I feel about Windows 95. I remember when there was only DOS, and then Windows 3 came out, and then Windows 95 which seemed like the very perfection of UI. Since then it seems to have gone downhill. Not very many true innovations, which is partly why I started experimenting with desktop Linux and finally switched to Mac OS X 10.4, because it felt like the final evolution of the desktop. Nowadays, nothing seems quite ideal, but Win95/98 will always seem like the epitome of desktop UI, the perfect union of form and function. Probably just nostalgia and rose colored glasses though in all honesty.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#23

Post by taneq »

jv22222 wrote: post #22

There’s a story (Prometheus myth) that Steve Jobs and the Mac team copied the human graphical interface idea from Xerox. A fascinating read about it here: https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/parc.html

Well, there's always that quote from Bill Gates when Jobs accused MS of stealing Apple's GUI design:

“Well, Steve [Jobs]… I think it’s more like we both had this rich neighbour named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it.” - Bill Gates

Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/824084-well-steve-jobs-i-th...

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#24

Post by maxxxxx »

sdegutis wrote: post #21
meerita wrote: post #11

As a Macintosh user since System 7, I cannot be more in love with the old UIs and UX. I really enjoy the pixel era. Certainly, the introduction to OS X took Apple to a different level, but the OS 9 UI for me will be one of the best examples of the epitome of OS. Good in interactions, colors, details, sound feedback. I will always thanks Apple for such work poured on an OS.

This is kind of how I feel about Windows 95. I remember when there was only DOS, and then Windows 3 came out, and then Windows 95 which seemed like the very perfection of UI. Since then it seems to have gone downhill. Not very many true innovations, which is partly why I started experimenting with desktop Linux and finally switched to Mac OS X 10.4, because it felt like the final evolution of the desktop. Nowadays, n…

I think it’s not just nostalgia. Windows 95 was a huge step for MS and introduced most of the UI elements that we are still using now. Since then I have trouble seeing any fundamental improvements in newer Windows versions. I’d be happy to go back to the UI of 95 or XP compared to the latest Windows 10 stuff. I just don’t it really got any better. Just slower.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#25

Post by dreamcompiler »

saagarjha wrote: post #9
dreamcompiler wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still despise the Dock. I even figured out how to hack it to make it invisible so I could use DragThing instead. Over time those hacks stopped working and DragThing ceased to exist (or at least I think it did) so now I just live with the stupid Dock. Thanks Apple.

Dock does a lot more than just the part you can see at the bottom of the screen, so you're not going to be able to truly get rid of it without breaking pretty much everything to do with Spaces and Launchpad along with it. Perhaps you could set it to auto-hide and only show after an extremely long delay?

That's exactly my point. Apple wove so much functionality into the Dock that it's now effectively impossible to remove it. And I may be weird, but Spaces and Launchpad are two of the things I immediately turn off, along with Mission Control, Dashboard, Expose, etc. because all of the above consume needless RAM or just get in my way.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#26

Post by noir_lord »

amatecha wrote: post #5

Another great link if you're interested in Apple's design insights: "Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines" , from 1995 or so. I keep a copy on my desk at work as it's a great conversation piece and full of fascinating HCI insights. You can download a PDF here: http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf :) One of my favorite details that seems to be frequently overlooked in modern times is the ellipsis o…

> The color that is most difficult to distinguish is light blue, which should be avoided for text, thin lines, and small shapes.

In hindsight kind of ironic given how much light blue/blue is used in 'modern' interfaces.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#27

Post by sdegutis »

maxxxxx wrote: post #24
sdegutis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of how I feel about Windows 95. I remember when there was only DOS, and then Windows 3 came out, and then Windows 95 which seemed like the very perfection of UI. Since then it seems to have gone downhill. Not very many true innovations, which is partly why I started experimenting with desktop Linux and finally switched to Mac OS X 10.4, because it felt like the final evolution of the desktop. Nowadays, n…

I think it’s not just nostalgia. Windows 95 was a huge step for MS and introduced most of the UI elements that we are still using now. Since then I have trouble seeing any fundamental improvements in newer Windows versions. I’d be happy to go back to the UI of 95 or XP compared to the latest Windows 10 stuff. I just don’t it really got any better. Just slower.

I do like that some Windows programs are now converting menus into searchable hierarchies, e.g. Visual Studio and VS Code. But those are just programs, and they're only power-user programs. Searchable grouped functions are a genuine innovation on top of hierarchical menus. The "Start Menu" improved on that front and it is generally good.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#28

Post by jplayer01 »

jv22222 wrote: post #22

There’s a story (Prometheus myth) that Steve Jobs and the Mac team copied the human graphical interface idea from Xerox. A fascinating read about it here: https://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/sites/mac/parc.html

So the reality is that they copied it, it just didn't happen in some magical visit to wonderland.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#29

Post by maxxxxx »

sdegutis wrote: post #27
maxxxxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s not just nostalgia. Windows 95 was a huge step for MS and introduced most of the UI elements that we are still using now. Since then I have trouble seeing any fundamental improvements in newer Windows versions. I’d be happy to go back to the UI of 95 or XP compared to the latest Windows 10 stuff. I just don’t it really got any better. Just slower.

I do like that some Windows programs are now converting menus into searchable hierarchies, e.g. Visual Studio and VS Code. But those are just programs, and they're only power-user programs. Searchable grouped functions are a genuine innovation on top of hierarchical menus. The "Start Menu" improved on that front and it is generally good.

I think the problem now is that some programs make improvements but the OS is stagnating. With Windows 95 the OS provided all the widgets like toolbars, menus and help system so most applications were pretty consistent. The first break was when Office introduced the ribbon but everybody else was forced to code their own ribbon because it wasn't integrated in the OS. Now with UWP and Win32 there is no consistency anymore. Searchable menus could easily have been integrated as standard for all apps if anybody had cared.

Re: “Origins of the Apple human interface” lecture – an annotated transcription

#30

Post by sdegutis »

maxxxxx wrote: post #29
sdegutis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do like that some Windows programs are now converting menus into searchable hierarchies, e.g. Visual Studio and VS Code. But those are just programs, and they're only power-user programs. Searchable grouped functions are a genuine innovation on top of hierarchical menus. The "Start Menu" improved on that front and it is generally good.

I think the problem now is that some programs make improvements but the OS is stagnating. With Windows 95 the OS provided all the widgets like toolbars, menus and help system so most applications were pretty consistent. The first break was when Office introduced the ribbon but everybody else was forced to code their own ribbon because it wasn't integrated in the OS. Now with UWP and Win32 there is no consistency anym…

Same thing for rearrangeable tabs with close buttons. I think Firefox introduced that concept (maybe it was Chrome), but it never got an official API, either on Mac OS X or Windows, which is strange because it's been such a fundamental part of certain programs for 15-20 years now. Lately macOS kind of has this, by allowing automatic grouping of documents for you, but it just feels hacked on compared to giving us this as an actual GUI component.
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