Report on forced organ harvesting in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#11

Post by bayesian_horse » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

I have read about the possibility of large-scale harvesting of organs from prisoners for a few months now. First thing to note about this particular article is that "The China Tribunal" has no formal or legal standing, it is basically a volunteer organization trying to collect evidence.

When they say "Worst Fears [...] Were Just confirmed" they are at best misleading.

There has been a notable dearth of reporting by traditional journalistic media about this topic, and so I am still somewhat skeptical. The evidence presented so far is not as conclusive as with the Uyghur suppression.

The practice described in the article would undoubtedly be a crime against Humanity, and among the biggest in history. But I can't tell right now if the process of its discovery is just slow-moving or if there is just nothing that big to discover. I'd appreciate any pointers to more information either way.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#12

Post by jtdev » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

A hard line stance on China’s human rights abuses, currency and trade manipulation, and intellectual property theft will be a top requirement for my support of 2020 US presidential candidates.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#13

Post by FartyMcFarter » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

> While extracting the liver and kidneys from an executed victim who had been shot in the head and dumped by the side of a road, Tohti made a horrifying discovery.

> "I started cutting down the middle and then he started struggling and I knew then that he was still alive, but he was too weak to resist me, " Tohti told The Telegraph.

What the actual fuck.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#14

Post by MrAlex94 » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #2

If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

> it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

Apologies if I am misunderstanding, but are you insinuating that forced harvesting of organs is “best practice”?

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#15

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

This is a textbook thought experiment in utilitarianism, carried to its logical conclusion. Kill one person, save eight. We might not like it, we might consider it abhorrent, it might contravene international human rights law, but we can't argue that it's senseless.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#16

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #3

While stopping short of concluding that the killing and forced organ removal of these peoples constitutes genocide in its legal definition (due to a lack of proof of actual intent to commit genocide), the panel nonetheless condemned the forced organ removals as a crime against humanity and an act of "unmatched wickedness". This article made me shiver. How did China get away with this for so long?

>How did China get away with this for so long?

In short, money. Voters and corporations tend to get upset when their supply of cheap material goods (and landfills) is cut off.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#17

Post by fsloth » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #2

If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

A life saved is not sufficient to counter a murder.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#18

Post by dougmwne » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #2

If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

This is possibly the most psychopathic thing I've ever read. It belongs on https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#19

Post by LocalH » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #2

If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

Not sure why this is being downvoted. It may be a macabre way of looking at it, but it is a valid viewpoint. Poster didn't specify whether they actually felt that way. I agree, in the following sense. A different way to put it - if human rights are to be violated, there better be a damn noble reason for it.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#20

Post by LocalH » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

MrAlex94 wrote: post #14

Noumenon72 wrote: post #2

If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.

> it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too. Apologies if I am misunderstanding, but are you insinuating that forced harvesting of organs is “best practice”?

I didn't get that reading at all. The US medical system shows very well that we don't always have "best practice" in mind when it comes to health care.