A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses • Hacker News Board

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#421

Post by Kihashi » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #241

Balgair wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't you also lose a lot of the deposit money you put down on the old apartment and the services that went along with it though? Wait, what? It's a deposit, you get it back at the end of the lease. Like, granted, if you have a lot of damage to the carpets, sure, you're gonna be out $80 for the cleaning of them. But I've always gotten it back in full after a month or so. For me, moving is litterally a weekend (mayb…

In my experience I lose hundreds on my deposit every time (with very little actual wear to validate that loss). I've only ever rented in major cities though, so maybe it's less aggressively slum-lordy elsewhere. If you do have more possessions than you can move yourself, or your moving long distances, you end up spending a ton of money. Movers usually cost me 5-10k and I didn't even have a lot of stuff (2bd apartment…

> Movers usually cost me 5-10k

For me, moving about the same amount is going to cost $1000 including storage for a month. I guess if you are also having the movers pack everything, it might cost that much, but I've heard of people moving across the country for less money.

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#422

Post by rdiddly » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #370

rdiddly wrote: post #268

On one of my harder-hearted days I would've felt schadenfreude (rich assholes waste obscene amounts of money on tacky shit, get burned, film at 11), but today I feel sorry for them. The whole thing is just sad. On the macro level, such a tragic mis-deployment of resources. And on the micro level, misplacing one's priorities on material things and finding out the hard way that it doesn't bring any meaning to your life…

Not going to analyze your apparent state of mind, but: many people find mansions built centuries ago by incredibly wealthy people fascinating, beautiful, desirable. Who cares if they are dead, they left pieces of art. If anything, the lack of taste and craftsmanship is a problem with today’s “McMansions”, not their size or depressed Millennials’ lack of imagination.

You lost me with the millennials bit - how do they come into play?

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#423

Post by hexo » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #415

hexo wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not wish to live in that kind of complete nightmare. And there is no such thing as too big house. How can someone even come up with that. I encourage that person to move into 10m^2 room and live there for like 8 years or so.

10m^2 is probably too small for many people, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t some inflection point where the marginal cost of upkeep outweighs the marginal utility of additional space. As an absurd example, would you want to live in a house the size of Montana, and be responsible for all of the maintenance, or would you prefer something more human-scale, like a 40-bedroom mansion?

Size of Montana would be too big :-) But anything with at least 100m^2 would do, below that would be way too small for normal living

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#424

Post by tathougies » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

jnwatson wrote: post #405

tathougies wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they can? An HOA is added to the deed agreement. A typical HOA will be allowed to put a lien on the house if you do not pay them the agreed upon fee, and -- crucially -- whatever other fees they determine. Thus, if an HOA wants to kick you out for any reason, they mostly just have to continue to fine you until you can no longer pay, at which point they ask a judge, and take the house.

You can’t foreclose a house due to a lien. It only impacts selling the house.

Yes they can? https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/hoa-liens-foreclosur...

In california for example, an HOA just has to get you to have $1800 in unpaid fines before they can simply evict you and sell the house to recuperate the costs.

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#425

Post by RankingMember » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #349

RankingMember wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same home ownership experience...I kept waiting for it to get better but it just got worse. Really took a toll on my partner and I's mental health. Owned for just shy of 10 years. Been renting for a little over 2 years now after finally getting out of it. Renting has its own pains, but that stuck feeling of home ownership + all the maintenance it entails far eclipses rental annoyances in my opinion.

I never hear anyone discuss that - everyone I ever talk to seem to experience nothing but joy - I'm glad that I'm not crazy for having a less than stellar outlook on the whole endeavour.

Definitely not crazy. I think some people feel pressured to make their life look like it's going well at all times so the ones that are having a hard time just don't talk about it.

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#426

Post by m463 » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

souprock wrote: post #249

showerst wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I hope i'm reading your hypothetical right) in a world where I don't have to venture out to go to work, and don't have to live in a set place to chase an industry, I'd put more value on being in a nice climate, close to fun things to do, and near other people that have 'interesting' established communities (walkable culture, food, know your neighbors, all the standard millennial trend stuff). I'm assuming a situatio…

Moving to flyover country is more than affordability. It's also a matter of culture. Some people want stand-your-ground, constitutional carry, and lethal defense of property. Some people want to be surrounded by a particular religious group. Affordability is also more than just being able to buy a place to live. People want land. This can mean being able to hunt in the yard, own a private pond, or walk around without…

I have a lot of friends who have moved to rural areas. A few of them went stir-crazy and moved back.

I called one friend who had moved away, pining after a property and he said moaned "nobody to talk to about anything more complicated than a hammer and nail".

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#427

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #223

cblum wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see this near the top and glad to know I’m not the only one who thinks like this. Like you, I only own a place as a compromise with my wife. And like you, I hate everything that comes with homeownership. People don’t realize there are a lot of hidden costs in owning a home. When you rent, if you secure a 12 month lease, you know exactly how much you’re spending in housing over the next year. When you own, all…

When you rent, if you secure a 12 month lease, you know exactly how much you’re spending in housing over the next year. But you don’t know what you are going to be paying in year 2,3,4,5 etc. Our rent went up from $1300 in 2012 to $1700 in 2016. It’s now $1900/month. Besides that, I don’t have people making noise all around me and everyone had the apartment mandated Comcast bundle including the wireless router where…

> Besides that, I don’t have people making noise all around me

I had the opposite problem. When I lived in a condo previously, I had the poor luck to live next to a shitty neighbor who would have parties at 5AM on Monday morning because she didn't work. The fact is anyone can get unlucky and have a shitty neighbor, but at least when you rent if the hassle is bad enough you can much more easily up and move.

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#428

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

robrtsql wrote: post #151

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #93

One of the trends that I can only hope continues is getting rid of this idea that home ownership (especially single family home ownership) is the American dream. I live in and own a detached single family home (was a compromise with my spouse) and to be honest, I hate it. I hate having to take care of the yard, to deal with unreliable tradespeople when things break, to deal with the huge expense of minor home repairs…

> paying for the freedom to easily up and move if something else fits my fancy. There is something to be said for this. However, there is also something to be said for the ability to not be kicked out of your living space directly ("we have decided not to renew your lease") or indirectly ("should you renew your lease, we will be increasing rent by $500 and installing smart locks in every apartment").

I totally agree with you. Certainly there are tradeoffs to both owning and renting, and different people will find the tradeoffs stronger in one direction or the other.

However, the reason I made my original comment is I feel that so often, at least in the US, the downsides of home ownership are completely minimized (I think people usually vastly underestimate maintenance costs, both in time and money) while the downsides of renting are blown out of proportion (the "you're just throwing money away" false comparison).

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#429

Post by qes » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #407

treis wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not accounting for equity changes. Even if you lost 20% of your house value you've paid down more of your mortgage than that.

On a typical 30 year mortgage you haven’t paid much principle in the first 5-10 years. So if you’re still down 10% (as some of those cities are), you could still be in the red.

I'm in my first mortgage, 30 years on ~$200k, almost nothing down. Starting to look at selling next year, which will be year 10.

If it sold for the price I bought it, I'd walk with at least $40k of equity after closing costs. But it's also increased in value about $60k.

And I'll have maybe $10k in maintenance and fix up costs over that decade.

Re: A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses

#430

Post by qes » Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #104

maxsilver wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also hate maintaining a detached single family home with a yard. I also hate being responsible for the fixes. But that situation is still far better than renting. When we rented, we were subjected to eviction at any time, for nearly any reason, for basically no notice (60 days, which in the US is effectively zero notice). Your subjected to every whim the crazy wildly-irrational housing market throws at you (we've h…

> we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest Quick math for the rest of you out there: That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019. Also, yes, I feel you there. Our rental agreement states a mandatory 10% increase if you rent from year to year. I've no idea why the company is this stupid though. The rents around us are falling or stay…

> That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019.

Which means they're almost certainly exaggerating, unless they're in a condo in downtown Chicago, but they did say "bumblefudge-nowhere" so I'd say just straight BS.