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Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

protonmail.com

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Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#131

Post by slips »

rolltiide wrote: post #106

All of this applies to making a new protonmail account too Requires SMS verification or an impassable captcha loop if over TOR And payment with a credit card The cryptocurrency payment option with non-user identifiable info only being available to existing protonmail accounts where that info was already harvested So it is ironic to see protonmail calling out those specific things about gmail confidential

Protonmail does those thongs to try and prevent bad actors or bots from making encrypted accounts to hide their shady tracks. Not for data collection that they'll sell for a profit. Don't be so glib as to state you can't see the difference.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#132

Post by sametmax »

danShumway wrote: post #126
sametmax wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or screen capture, or inspect element, or taking a picture with your phone, or JS injection, or using an extension, or IMAP... The only way for this to work is to restrict the user freedom so much it will: - cost a huge amount of money - lower the productivity - kill the mood of everybody My take on this is that if your industry really needs this kind of feature, either you suck as a human being and I don't want to w…

Well, I tried it out. At least the IMAP is partially mitigated since you basically get a link to a separate web page -- the contents aren't embedded in the email itself. On the other hand, that means there's no reason to resort to something as complicated as JS injection or dev tools. Screenshots will usually work fine, because messages aren't threaded, so you'll likely get the entire message showing up on one page.…

> Well, I tried it out. At least the IMAP is partially mitigated since you basically get a link to a separate web page -- the contents aren't embedded in the email itself.

Wow, so it kills your offline productivity as well, and of course make back ups and archiving harder. I know it's kinda of the point, but I haven't realized the implications of it until you said so.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#133

Post by tzs »

dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

> Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of information that enter my space.

Their silly UI won't, but what about HTTPS? Won't wiresharking your own cables only get you the ciphertext from the HTTPS session which would be useless to you without the ephemeral key?

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#134

Post by joosters »

privateSFacct wrote: post #124

Wow, marketing spam from a competitor. We send confidential docs regularly to users, who need access to those docs for perhaps 1 week at most. No one wants / needs to keep these around, but no one goes through their email carefully to delete these items. If that users email was hacked -> they have a big problem. If we can mark the items for a 3 week retention and then expire those items for them, that great - and thi…

There's no need to call Protonmail idiots in order to put across your views on the subject, keep it civil. Plus, it makes your argument look weak if you have to resort to name-calling.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#135

Post by rndgermandude »

wyxuan wrote: post #125
rndgermandude wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can still remember the message (or at least important bits) and can write it down when at home or tell it to other people.

Yeah but it is still a helluva lot harder to leak it, and it isn't as good as showing an email exchange.

Sure it's harder, and it will not stand up in a court of law probably. But there probably have been and still are a ton of spies, national and industrial, who do exactly this, memorize things.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#136

Post by hirsin »

dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

It's not the point. Most "information theft" is people not realizing that they shouldn't share the information. If someone is dedicated enough to exfiltrate information they'll just take a picture of the screen. But now it's really clear that that's what they're doing.

Source - same discussion years ago at Microsoft when Windows introduced this at an OS level to prevent screenshots of confidential mail.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#137

Post by dymk »

okmokmz wrote: post #123
mda wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would trust Google and Gmail way more than protonmail and whatever company behind it for protecting my private data to be honest.

You'd trust a company thats primary business model is based on the mass collection, analysis, and monetization of user data to protect your private data? Not saying I trust proton mail, but as far as I'm concerned Google is a malicious actor when it comes to my data same as Facebook, and I believe it's in individuals's best interest to limit their exposure

I trust the company who is under global regulatory scrutiny 24/7, and watched like hawks by every major news organization in the world for them to slip up.

If Protonmail fucks up, there's not going to be a NYT article about it.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#139

Post by threwawasy1228 »

Protonmail is a fantastic service, I switched to an account with them in the last few years and have not logged into my gmail since. Can't say enough good things about their offerings. I'm glad to see them making arguments like these in public to out their competitors practices.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#140

Post by Avamander »

dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

You overestimate the average user :/
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