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Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

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Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#21

Post by consp »

a254613e wrote: post #15
dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

Why is it hard to understand? Because your average user will not "wireshark their own cables", and those who do will use different methods of secure communication. You'd be surprised how many users are unable to bypass various extremely simple restrictions - and this is the target market for these features. On top of that self deleting email will make it also a bit harder to prove that the screenshot is real - unless…

> On top of that self deleting email will make it also a bit harder to prove that the screenshot is real

Except it isn't deleted from your send folder.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#22

Post by ijpoijpoihpiuoh »

Modes like this are not intended to provide hard security. They are not designed to deal with malicious recipients. Rather, they're intended to provide a barrier to accidental or unthinking dissemination of confidential content. It is also designed to prevent permanent retention and the ongoing risk that represents. It solves or limits the fallout from the "silly friend" and "new enemy" problems.

There is no way to convey information to a malicious human s.t. that human cannot convey it onwards to unwanted recipients. The best you can do is provide strong disincentives. Some options for doing this: make sure that your recipients generally don't want to hurt you. Make them fear you (even that doesn't always work, see [1]).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#23

Post by derefr »

dheera wrote: post #16
lern_too_spel wrote: post #10

This is a feature that Outlook already has and corporate users expect. It's for making forwarding sensitive emails or any of their content require intent instead of being accidental.

If "accidental" is the true worry, display a confirmation/warning box before forwarding. There are valid reasons to need to forward even e-mails marked confidential, including lawsuits, harassment cases, or even just asking your own lawyer before signing an agreement, among others. Deciding when a piece of information should not have been forwarded is the job of the workplace or law, not the e-mail client.

The workplace can make that decision in advance and enforce it through Mobile Device Management. Which shows up as... the email client not letting you do the thing.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#24

Post by 1001101 »

mfer wrote: post #8

I like posts being out there like this. I expect many non-technical users will get the wrong impression about confidential mode. Impression is different from the stated words and can be filled in by our subconscious thoughts about the space between what is said. When words are explicitly said it can cause people to think things through.

I find that false promises of security are worse than none at all.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#25

Post by Shebanator »

gruez wrote: post #6
dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

>Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables Or for the less technically inclined, opening the email on your phone/tablet and put it in a photocopier.

Sure, but that is equally true for products like protonmail that use end-to-end encryption and for those that don't do any encryption at all.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#26

Post by gyaniv »

Yes, Google isn't untrustworthy and doesn't care about the users privacy, we knew that, but the general public that isn't as aware (at this point it's hard to be completely unaware) also doesn't read this private company blog, so it doesn't really help much (except advertise the company).

We should be thinking of ways to improve the situation for everyone (not saying I have the solution), but personally (and unfortunately) I don't think this would have any impact.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#27

Post by devrand »

dheera wrote: post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

All DLP products are like this. They impose basic limitations that can easily be bypassed by anyone remotely technically inclined.

I've come to the conclusion that these products are just to cover the low-hanging fruit situations of someone accidentally doing something that they shouldn't have. In other words, it's a UI integrated "DO NOT FORWARD" message from an e-mail.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#28

Post by lloydde »

cmsimike wrote: post #14
lloydde wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We will not scan or read your Gmail messages to show you ads.” https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6603?hl=en

You're absolutely right. Turns out they changed this behavior in 2017. Thanks for making me look into it.

You’re welcome. I found it fascinating at the time of the change, and still do, that email is sacred, but all other activity is open for manipation-based-advertising.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#29

Post by dheera »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #20
dheera wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "accidental" is the true worry, display a confirmation/warning box before forwarding. There are valid reasons to need to forward even e-mails marked confidential, including lawsuits, harassment cases, or even just asking your own lawyer before signing an agreement, among others. Deciding when a piece of information should not have been forwarded is the job of the workplace or law, not the e-mail client.

> If "accidental" is the true worry, display a confirmation/warning box before forwarding. Gmail supports other MUAs using IMAP and POP, so that doesn't work. The fact that there are valid reasons to forward sensitive emails is why there is an escape hatch. It's only the accidental forwards and copies that this is meant to stop.

We can invent a new e-mail header X-Confidential: true, and clients will start to adopt the warning behavior over time. If Gmail supports it off the bat it will already cover a huge fraction of the market.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#30

Post by dewey »

> It can still be accessed by Google and potentially exposed to governments or hackers.

The article makes the classic mistake of assuming everyone has the full security apparatus of a country after them.

This feature is obviously not built as an alternative to Signal or for the Snowdens of this world. These probably know better than using unencrypted email already. For the average user it's an improvement of the current status.

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