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The Hedonic Treadmill

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Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#21

Post by lotsofpulp »

sadface wrote: post #16

The way this is phrased makes it seem like this "treadmill" is a bad thing. I acknowledge that this is bad for an individual, but I actually think this is overall good for humanity and is a major reason why we've developed so much so quickly. We know plenty of animal species are really smart, but they've never figured out how to build skyscrapers or generate electricity. We chalk this up to the fact that "humans are…

>because they stopped being satisfied with the status quo.

There were tribes that were satisfied with the status quo (or were unable to advance out of bad luck or environment or whatever), and they got wrecked by tribes who kept advancing.

I don’t thinks it’s a property unique to humans, all species try to gain more and more power, humans just have far more capacity. More power means more reliable food, shelter, and mating opportunity, thus more likelihood of procreating.

This can be to a fault. Even today, if a tribe (e.g. country) were to stop consuming to protect future generations, stop unnecessary weapons development and testing, trade, etc, they would be at a disadvantage in the short term power wise versus another country that kept going full steam ahead.

What’s good in short term might not be in the long term, and evolution doesn’t optimize for that.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#22

Post by kennyadam »

bschne wrote: post #20

Slightly OT, but does anyone have a digital copy of the original paper cited in the article? Would love to read it but I can't find a PDF or a doi to search for on Scihub. Brickman; Campbell (1971). Hedonic relativism and planning the good society. New York: Academic Press. pp. 287–302. in M. H. Apley, ed., Adaptation Level Theory: A Symposium, New York: Academic Press

Closest I can come is finding the print copy of Adaptation Level Theory: A Symposium on Amazon and eBay for a few bucks.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#23

Post by lotsofpulp »

arketyp wrote: post #4

In the way that being content is an evolutionary disaster, it makes sense that we always have an itch to scratch.

Not being content can also be an evolutionary disaster. Imagine a specifies that consumes more than the environment can sustainability produce and collapses the whole environment (for that species). This can be on a bacteria/virus level, insect level, mammal level, and of course human level.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#24

Post by kodz4 »

skrebbel wrote: post #9

Ha! I'm familiar with the phenomenon, but I hadn't heard it described as a "treadmill" before. Most metaphors out there (eg most computer science jargon) fit well on a superficial level, but the analogy breaks down when you go deeper. But sometimes, someone comes up with a metaphor for something that's such a good fit that it just makes my day. The Hedonic Treadmill is definitely one of those. It's not just the repet…

A good story helps. Why does a millionaire athlete walk into a stadium day in day out to experience pain, emotional and physical, at a level most people cant take? Why don't single moms juggling multiple minimum wage jobs even bother? Why not just ditch the kids at an orphanage? There is always a story people tell themselves. Good stories can shift outcomes.

We are lucky to be alive at a time when information such as this is coming online and awareness is rising.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

scotty79 wrote: post #11

That's the worst name for the simplest thing. I'd call it 'illusion of impact'. What happens to you seems like it's affecting you but really doesn't. After a while you feel no happier or sadder that you have always been. It's because your happiness is biological and you can improve it or harm it lastingly only by affecting your biology. Getting more money won't affect it. Sleeping longer, moving more, eating with mor…

Reducing volatility and increasing security of health, food, and shelter makes me happy, and more money certainly is a way to achieve that in the environment I live in. I’m sure it’s biological as it’s still chemicals in the brain.

I define happiness as meeting one’s expectations, or maybe unhappiness as not meeting one’s expectations.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#26

Post by majewsky »

reallydontask wrote: post #5
clamprecht wrote: post #3

Last time this was submitted, it only got 2 upvotes. That just wasn't good enough.

probably next time it'll go even higher, it just needs more and more

The problem is that, even if it the score goes a bit higher each time, it will not satisfy us and we will be as frustrated with the new higher score than we were with the previous score.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#28

Post by gexla »

I think most people referencing this term aren't really talking about a hedonic treadmill. There's a lot of talk about getting richer and not happier. But the key to me is adaptation. As we move from one situation to another we adapt to that situation, better or worse. We may think prison would be total hell, but then get there and find that it's tolerable. Similarly, we could get a windfall or major financial breakthrough and soon find that our state doesn't much change.

I find there's a certain texture to my day to day and it takes a lot to change that. There may seemingly be a lot of changes around me, but the texture of my day stays largely the same. A major increase of salary might open a world of options, but my time is my real bottleneck. I can make a list of things I would like to do and then come to the conclusion that it's best to do nothing. I imagine starting from a template for a painting session which is plain but not blank. I can paint all sort of wild possibilities but then realize that my reality is still that same plain template. I paint stories of dramas, ups, downs, victories, downfalls, etc and the realize that nothing has actually changed in the background. I just made all that other stuff up. Yes, the boss really did fly off the handle and I feared for my job, but I know that tomorrow will be business as usual.

Question for you guys. Do you feel that the hedonis treadmill is a thing which pushes us forward? I would argue that it does the opposite, it holds us back. I feel the greatest growth comes from the smallest period of being in adaptation. Just long enough to decide, act, observe and get back to orientation. It's just a long improv.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#29

Post by scotty79 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #25
scotty79 wrote: post #11

That's the worst name for the simplest thing. I'd call it 'illusion of impact'. What happens to you seems like it's affecting you but really doesn't. After a while you feel no happier or sadder that you have always been. It's because your happiness is biological and you can improve it or harm it lastingly only by affecting your biology. Getting more money won't affect it. Sleeping longer, moving more, eating with mor…

Reducing volatility and increasing security of health, food, and shelter makes me happy, and more money certainly is a way to achieve that in the environment I live in. I’m sure it’s biological as it’s still chemicals in the brain. I define happiness as meeting one’s expectations, or maybe unhappiness as not meeting one’s expectations.

Lack of money prevents you from getting things that help keep your body in good condition. So it this sense money can improve your happiness. Just not directly. Having money does nothing for you. Spending money to improve your health, diet and leave the place that harms you is what makes you happier.

I don't think you can define happiness. It's a primary emotion. How do you define pain?

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#30

Post by raducu »

k__ wrote: post #17

I'm living non-monogamous and in the poly community we often talk about a similar phenomenon called "Relationship Escalator", which is less general than the "Hedonic Treadmill". The idea is that most people see a relationship as an escalator where you move up somehow automatically. First you date, than you're going steady, then you move in together, marriage, kids etc. pp. The hedonic treadmill is considered one of t…

No offense, but aren't you guys the ones who keep on the hedonic treadmill by constantly changing partners and are never actually satisfied?

The ones actually chasing after that new relationship energy/dopamine rush?

Isn't it backwards to spin the normal progression of a romantic relationship as hedonic?

Are the people into poly some kind of saints/ascets and the people on the "relationship escalator" the hedonits? (this is not meant to be a straw man)

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