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Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#11

Post by amyjess »

reustle wrote: post #5
paulcole wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have fun living in the car dependent sprawling suburbs when you're 80 and not legally allowed to drive anymore. You're describing Florida and they drive anyways.

They drive golf carts* I've been to a couple golf cart communities in Florida and they are actually pretty cool for retirement

My dad lives in a 55+ community in Nevada, and they have golf carts too. There's even a sign when you enter the development warning you that golf carts are permitted on the roads.

Unlike a lot of retirement communities, it looks like just another suburban housing development. The only hint that it's different, aside from the golf carts, is that every single house is one-story in order to accommodate people who can't (easily) climb stairs.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#12

Post by ghaff »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #3

The future of NA suburbs as well. Have fun living in the car dependent sprawling suburbs when you're 80 and not legally allowed to drive anymore. I guess one can hope that autonomous cars will finally appear to bail one out of this predicament, but I'll personally be setting myself up to retire in a place where everything I need is a short walk or wheelchair roll away.

Cities are no panacea. Just a couple of months ago I was in Manhattan after a bad muscle sprain. I could walk a few blocks but it was hard.

I guess in a dense city it’s easier to just take an Uber everywhere but for some types of restricted mobility it’s actually much easier to be able to drive a car more or less door to door.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#13

Post by npunt »

In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west.

We tend to view suburbs as these static places that serve a particular purpose for primarily families and where nothing changes. But in fact suburbs are starting to transform into de facto retirement communities as boomers exit the workforce, due in large part to incentives from certain laws that keep them there and prevent development (no comment on who created those laws). One clear example is schools in Cupertino are closing due to declining enrollment - something that certainly doesn't fit the conception of a suburb being a place where families are raised.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#14

Post by gwbas1c »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #6

Really interesting article. > ... it also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income. The goal was to make public housing a safety net for elderly, low-income and socially vulnerable people. The effect, however, has been to mak…

And in the US, a lot of upper-middle-class HATE mixed income dwellings.

At least in dense cities, public housing can be mixed into free market housing.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#16

Post by pas »

gwbas1c wrote: post #14
Tiktaalik wrote: post #6

Really interesting article. > ... it also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income. The goal was to make public housing a safety net for elderly, low-income and socially vulnerable people. The effect, however, has been to mak…

And in the US, a lot of upper-middle-class HATE mixed income dwellings. At least in dense cities, public housing can be mixed into free market housing.

They hate it because it became a one stop shop solution for everything. (Especially the mental illness problems are troubling without any of the very much needed therapy, continuous follow ups, visits from a social worker, etc.)

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#17

Post by crimsonalucard »

npunt wrote: post #13

In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west. We tend to view suburbs as these static places that serve a particular purpose for primarily families and where nothing changes. But in fact suburbs are starting to transform into de facto retirement communities as boomers exit the workforce, due in large part to incentives from certain laws that keep…

What??? I'm from Cupertino. Haven't been back in ages but I had no idea this was going on. Do you have a source? not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested in learning more.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#18

Post by xcklo »

dalbasal wrote: post #10
Tiktaalik wrote: post #6

Really interesting article. > ... it also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income. The goal was to make public housing a safety net for elderly, low-income and socially vulnerable people. The effect, however, has been to mak…

I increasingly think that for social safety nets to work well, they need to be universalized, if possible. Otherwise we get welfare traps, ghettoisation or just poor quality (like buses in places where only the poor use em). It doesn't mean everyone has to use it, just that they can. This is common sense in services like health or education, where we're used to it.

That universalism leads to less social stratification is essentially the idea behind the social democratic welfare state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state#Three_worlds_of_...

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#19

Post by lacampbell »

ilamont wrote: post #9

Several of the examples in the article hinted at familial estrangement, which makes things much worse. I lived in Taiwan, which also has a stagnant birth rate (only 181,606 births last year, https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3611847 ) and a decades-long trend for young people to migrate to the large cities, or go to China to try their fortunes there. But there is also a strong tradition of multi-generational hous…

I am secretly looking forward to the Japanese style rural depopulation that seems inevitable in Taiwan. Real estate there is hugely expensive - especially considering the low quality.

Re: Tokyo's suburban housing became vast ghettoes for the old

#20

Post by astrange »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #17
npunt wrote: post #13

In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west. We tend to view suburbs as these static places that serve a particular purpose for primarily families and where nothing changes. But in fact suburbs are starting to transform into de facto retirement communities as boomers exit the workforce, due in large part to incentives from certain laws that keep…

What??? I'm from Cupertino. Haven't been back in ages but I had no idea this was going on. Do you have a source? not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested in learning more.

Cupertino residents are incredibly NIMBY and incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in - traffic, you know. The city council they just elected has many great opinions like "Apple employees are too poor to live in Cupertino" and "Men who work at Apple will molest our daughters and hire prostitutes".

Right now Vallco mall has been torn down and the city is trying its best to stop an affordable housing development there.

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