Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless How can something be grammatically meaningless? Further, because you're not able to understand the semantic meaning of a phrase does not mean it has no semantic meaning. I don't understand German--is German semantically meaningless? > I am all for using a more casual voice > I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written…
Removing the filler "uh" the sentence becomes "Like their purpose." Which could be semantically understood as "[I/He/They] Like (or enjoy) their (whale's song) purpose." A semantically ambiguous sentence is just that, ambiguous. This sentence can have multiple meanings. Also, conflating dialects, verbal fillers, and languages is asinine and you know that is not what my original point was. Writing casually about an ex…
Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
21–30 of 40 posts
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes? It’s clear writing, it’s truthful and direct. You don’t like the style, but I’m sure there are many people who don’t like your preferred voice. The days of one acceptable voice in trade writing are gone, and that’s a good thing. It was creating a gate keeping effect whereby people who spoke well and clearly but not “right”—according to some ethnic cultural moors—were not taken seriously. Now everyone can be not…
I am all for using a more casual voice when writing about a subject for an audience outside of that particular domain of expertise. However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless. I am for using plain english to describe latin law terms. I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written word.
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless How can something be grammatically meaningless? Further, because you're not able to understand the semantic meaning of a phrase does not mean it has no semantic meaning. I don't understand German--is German semantically meaningless? > I am all for using a more casual voice > I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written…
Removing the filler "uh" the sentence becomes "Like their purpose." Which could be semantically understood as "[I/He/They] Like (or enjoy) their (whale's song) purpose." A semantically ambiguous sentence is just that, ambiguous. This sentence can have multiple meanings. Also, conflating dialects, verbal fillers, and languages is asinine and you know that is not what my original point was. Writing casually about an ex…
Your argument supporting your prior assertion that "the sentence has meaningless grammar/syntax" is that... if you remove part if it, the sentence ceases to make sense?
Their sentence isn't semantically ambiguous. You may not understand the meaning of their sentence, but your experience is not everyone's experience. The word "uh" in the quoted sentence serves a particular purpose--it's an emphasis of the ridiculousness about how little we know with respect to the animals. Moreover, it's a very concise way of communicating that emphasis.
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#24> There’s a lot the biologists don’t know about these songs. Like, uh, their purpose. Is this really considered an acceptable way to write these days? Incredibly sad to hear how there are <30 whales in this region. Especially when listening to one's calls. Wonder what kind of whale-to-whale range these songs have.
The full stop before "Like" is an intensifier to draw attention to that sentence. The "uh" indicates the author's surprise at how little the biologists know, which also intensifies the sentence.
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes? It’s clear writing, it’s truthful and direct. You don’t like the style, but I’m sure there are many people who don’t like your preferred voice. The days of one acceptable voice in trade writing are gone, and that’s a good thing. It was creating a gate keeping effect whereby people who spoke well and clearly but not “right”—according to some ethnic cultural moors—were not taken seriously. Now everyone can be not…
I am all for using a more casual voice when writing about a subject for an audience outside of that particular domain of expertise. However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless. I am for using plain english to describe latin law terms. I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written word.
Another way of conveying it might be this:
"For instance, they don't even know what their purpose is, which surprises this writer, given what an obvious and basic thing to know that would seem to be."
I'll admit their wording seems a bit overly casual, but it does convey things that simply saying "such as their purpose" would not, and it does it in fewer words than my example above.
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#26Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Removing the filler "uh" the sentence becomes "Like their purpose." Which could be semantically understood as "[I/He/They] Like (or enjoy) their (whale's song) purpose." A semantically ambiguous sentence is just that, ambiguous. This sentence can have multiple meanings. Also, conflating dialects, verbal fillers, and languages is asinine and you know that is not what my original point was. Writing casually about an ex…
> Removing the filler "uh" the sentence becomes "Like their purpose." Which could be semantically understood as "[I/He/They] Like (or enjoy) their (whale's song) purpose." A semantically ambiguous sentence is just that, ambiguous. This sentence can have multiple meanings. Your argument supporting your prior assertion that "the sentence has meaningless grammar/syntax" is that... if you remove part if it, the sentence…
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#28Are they as rare as the 52 Hz whale? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/52-hertz_whale
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am all for using a more casual voice when writing about a subject for an audience outside of that particular domain of expertise. However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless. I am for using plain english to describe latin law terms. I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written word.
I don't belive this is actually semantically meaningless. The pause in 'uh' is clearly used to emphasize the significant lack of information such that scientists don't even know the purpose of these calls. For brevity and that this is not a serious/academic article itself, the 'uh' is a suitable shorthand for a casual audience. I myself am not a fan but I do not claim it is semantically meaningless. I grasp the full…
Re: Song of the Rarest Large Whale on Earth Recorded for the First Time
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes? It’s clear writing, it’s truthful and direct. You don’t like the style, but I’m sure there are many people who don’t like your preferred voice. The days of one acceptable voice in trade writing are gone, and that’s a good thing. It was creating a gate keeping effect whereby people who spoke well and clearly but not “right”—according to some ethnic cultural moors—were not taken seriously. Now everyone can be not…
I am all for using a more casual voice when writing about a subject for an audience outside of that particular domain of expertise. However, "Like, uh, their purpose." is grammatically and semantically meaningless. I am for using plain english to describe latin law terms. I am against colloquial, spoken styles slipping into written word.
I really don't know. I read an interview with Haruki Murakami. He said that when he first started writing, he would write in English (which, at the time, he was very bad at) and then translate it into Japanese. He did that so that he was forced to write very simple sentences that anyone could understand. There is a reason is an insanely popular author.
People these days don't read literature, generally speaking. Actually, let's back that up. What I mean is that most people spend a lot more time reading than most people used to do 100, or 50 or even 20 years ago. However, they read tweets and facebook postings and instagram chats. They do it constantly. I've recently seen a guy riding a motorised scooter in the middle of Moorgate station while messaging on his mobile phone (with noise cancelling headphones on to boot)! This kind of writing is aimed at that guy!
Yeah, I hate that guy too (he almost killed me), but that's the market these days. They want close, intimate, personal text that looks like it might have come from their best friend. And while I'm being tongue in cheek, it's just true that modern society is getting less formal and more intimate. At the same time, people are reading vastly more content from non-professional writers than they are from professional writers. It changes what they look for and expect in an article.
I used to teach English as a foreign language. One of the things I realised very quickly is that the grammar rules you are taught in school are actually wrong. Those rules are called the "prescriptive grammar" for a language and they don't model the language perfectly.
A good example of this is use of "to be" with a participle. If I say "I am going", what is the meaning of the word "going"? How does it compare to "I am blue"? What if I said, "I am to go"? What do the words "to go" mean in this context? How does that compare to sentences like "Going is good" and "To go is good"? In all of these sentences, where is the verb? What if I told you that "to be" in all of these sentences is not a verb, but actually a "copula" -- a word that equates one thing to another. So "I am blue" just equates "I" and "blue". "I am going" equates "I" and the act of going. "I am to go" equates "I" and the necessity of going. "Going is good" equates an actual act of going with goodness. "To go is good" equates the general concept of going with goodness. But our prescriptive grammar says that we can't have a sentence without a verb and so "is going" is somehow a verb.
That grammar that we learn, is not the construction of the language. It is a set of normative rules that let us speak so that we don't sound unintelligible. However, prescriptive grammar always lags behind colloquial usage by necessity. Unlike French, we don't have an academy that tells us how we must talk. Instead, we talk how we want to talk and then we update our grammar to fit the weird rules that we started using when we were talking.
We don't write like we did in Shakespeare's time. We don't write like we did even 100 years ago. However, the change in writing form is morphing faster and faster these days because people are communicating more and more through writing. There is nothing that can be done about it.
Although, I hate it too. Because I'm old. LOL!