Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows • Hacker News Board

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#71

Post by DoctorOetker » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

> "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" They do have a point on emission controls, though. Pretty much every person I know that owns a diesel car has either ripped out or plans to rip out the particulate filter. Doesn't matter that it's illegal, doesn't matter that it hurts everyone around. People just don'…

I wonder if it could be possible to "film" the particulate emissions somehow, so cameras on highways with an extra setup could identify the offenders?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#72

Post by mulmen » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #69

mulmen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like emission testing? What happens in 15 years when that particulate filter wears out and nobody can fix it but the rest of the car is fine?

Replacement parts aren't an issue for motor vehicles. In 2013 when I was still driving a 1995 GMC 1500 I could still easily source replacement parts for it, including replacement headlight trim rings, replacement fuel injectors, replacement fuel pumps, replacement throttle bodies, etc. etc.. So that's not an argument that holds any water whatsoever with me. Worst case in 15 years there will be a few shops around the…

This is true of old John Deere equipment too. The point is manufacturers (like John Deere, or Apple) are trying to make this kind of repair impossible.

I'm not advocating for people breaking emission laws. I'm saying you don't prevent that by revoking the right to repair.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#73

Post by jmull » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

Google locked you out of advertising and that's Apple's fault? I'm not sure you've really got a good grasp of the situation.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#74

Post by hanniabu » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

looeee wrote: post #63

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been directly involved contributing towards a government investigation that resulted in the conviction and incarceration of someone for white collar crime, I would disagree with your assessment. Doing something > doing nothing. You have to start somewhere, and a phone call is a fine place to start. "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."

How did you get involved with that? Did you just phone up and offer your services?

I'd imagine it going something like this:

"Hello, I have information that would likely be useful as evidence for the antitrust lawsuit against Google."

"Thanks, but I think we have it covered" -or- "Thanks, let me take a note so we both feel good about this interaction and never actually follow up on this."

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#75

Post by kbenson » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

radcon wrote: post #62

simonh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."

Well, there is the important connection between how Apple was able to get Google to implement a ban on advertising. That was glossed over. I don't think it's impossible, but it's not such an easy leap as to not need any explanation.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#76

Post by phkahler » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

So Google shut down ads for an entire industry because of bad actors? Are the percentages that bad to warrant it? If so, isn't that Google's claim to fame - finding the high value results?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#77

Post by Zak » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

radcon wrote: post #62

simonh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."

That doesn't explain how it's Apple's fault. Google is unlikely to restrict advertising just because it's in Apple's interests.

If Google didn't have a reason to do so in its own self-interest, Apple would have to use a threat or a bribe to get Google to reduce its own advertising revenue in this way. The comment provides no evidence of that.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#78

Post by paulddraper » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #76

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

So Google shut down ads for an entire industry because of bad actors? Are the percentages that bad to warrant it? If so, isn't that Google's claim to fame - finding the high value results?

A few years ago, Amazon shut down anyone selling Chromecast on their store. "Too much fraud" was the reason given.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#79

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

looeee wrote: post #63

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been directly involved contributing towards a government investigation that resulted in the conviction and incarceration of someone for white collar crime, I would disagree with your assessment. Doing something > doing nothing. You have to start somewhere, and a phone call is a fine place to start. "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."

How did you get involved with that? Did you just phone up and offer your services?

Googled government office performing investigation, call general number, ask for someone assigned to case X. "I have documents and electronic data that might be pertinent to an ongoing investigation you have open. Where can I send them?", which led to an in person meeting.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#80

Post by yubiox » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Ford car tire was replaced by a Walmart employee hired a week ago. The car could have a blowout and crash. The story will become - Fords have blowouts and crash. Tires should only be replaced with factory original tires by Ford authorized service centers, right?