Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows • Hacker News Board

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#51

Post by woliveirajr » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #49

woliveirajr wrote: post #4

Having my HP printer just failed because of something was wrong on the printer head (and replacing the printer head alone costs more than the printer, and is a easy job as it was made to be easily replaced), I'm always mad that a part costs equal or more than the whole thing. Any kind of "locked-in" to repair anything should always be against the law: no one should be allowed to charge more for a part than it charges…

You got a dirt cheap printer because you're paying with supplies. Printer heads are the normal price.

And that's why there are anti-dumping laws. And I assure you it wasn't the cheap version of the printer....

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#52

Post by Brain_Thief » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #20

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

The main thing any of these companies is trying to avoid is loss of control. Control over the ecosystem, control over profit.

And control over users and their behavior.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#53

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #17

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Why is that scenario Apple’s problem?

Some customers would assume that since a place did repair the phone that Apple approves of them doing so, therefor putting liability on Apple.

Any such harm coming from that phone would be first applied to Apple and Apple would have to expend money to prove otherwise.

I have no problem with allow customers to select the shop they want for out of warranty work but I am fully in the camp of manufacturers being able to provide an obvious means for shops to have certification to repair a device in warranty.

As to the idea of "Right to Repair". I work in the automotive industry and the company I work for lives by this, however by no means is it realistic that having the information, tools, and parts, would guarantee a good result for all those who undertake the work. Plus people do have an unrealistic idea of which parts would ever be replaceable. Batteries sure, but individual chips would be not be.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#54

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #41

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to contact the Justice Department to contribute to their anti trust investigation against Google.

"Have you considered just phoning up the government?" has got to be the pinnacle of armchair activism.

Having been directly involved contributing towards a government investigation that resulted in the conviction and incarceration of someone for white collar crime, I would disagree with your assessment. Doing something > doing nothing. You have to start somewhere, and a phone call is a fine place to start.

"Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#55

Post by mulmen » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

> "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" They do have a point on emission controls, though. Pretty much every person I know that owns a diesel car has either ripped out or plans to rip out the particulate filter. Doesn't matter that it's illegal, doesn't matter that it hurts everyone around. People just don'…

You mean like emission testing?

What happens in 15 years when that particulate filter wears out and nobody can fix it but the rest of the car is fine?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#56

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #46

kcbanner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does third parties disassembling and reselling parts equate to licensing a cpu design?

A most of the time the third parties are sourcing from recovered parts, they’re dealing in parts stolen from factories. But you are right - if they did gets the parts from a different device they should be allowed to reuse them freely.

> A most of the time the third parties are sourcing from recovered parts, they’re dealing in parts stolen from factories.

Wonder if there's any data on that. Given the extent to which China recycles electronics (some of which I've seen myself), it wouldn't surprise me if China-sourced replacement components were actually recovered from discarded devices.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#57

Post by simonh » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#58

Post by cyrksoft » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

Does it violate the terms of use of the phone? iPhone, for example. If the terms make it clear you can't fix it outside their approved shops then there is no "right to repair". It's part of the contract you get into when buying the phone.

I can't seem to find the terms of the iPhone anywhere.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#59

Post by th3l3mons » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #38

ben509 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to require OEMs sell their parts. They just need to be unencumbered by IP and other restrictions, i.e. customs. Then the parts will become available on the secondary market as companies disassemble dead devices and resell them.

So Apple should be required to license their cpu design to other companies?

Apple has used US Customs to seize parts intended for repairs, including parts from donor boards. Apple sued (and last I knew was trying to appeal) a Norway repair shop for repairing iPhones using "counterfeit" components. iirc, some parts, including the display, must match appropriately or the OS won't boot as a form of parts validation, effectively preventing display swaps when repairing.

I don't think the previous comment was licensing the design. Apple has been very aggressive with donor parts and data recovery.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#60

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #55

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" They do have a point on emission controls, though. Pretty much every person I know that owns a diesel car has either ripped out or plans to rip out the particulate filter. Doesn't matter that it's illegal, doesn't matter that it hurts everyone around. People just don'…

You mean like emission testing? What happens in 15 years when that particulate filter wears out and nobody can fix it but the rest of the car is fine?

> You mean like emission testing?

Would be great.

> What happens in 15 years when that particulate filter wears out and nobody can fix it but the rest of the car is fine?

If it weren't so easy to get away with not having that filter, then what would happen is a secondary market that sells replacement filters for old cars, just like it happens for every other car part.