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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#591
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never distributed child pornography or snuff films. I'm already not subjecting anyone to it. Communications channels exist. Unless you want to undo that, or enable this behavior, you have to deal with it somehow.

We don't have to have huge, centralized communication sites where anyone can sign up and post stuff and the operator's shielded from liability for what's posted so long as they subject a bunch of humans to it in order to filter it out, even if there's tons and tons of it posted constantly. We only have to have that in order to keep supporting the current ad-tech business models, which isn't a given. I'm not saying if…

That's a very arbitrary line that's really just based on you making a judgment call for things you like or against things you don't like. You'd probably do well in American politics.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#592
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to have huge, centralized communication sites where anyone can sign up and post stuff and the operator's shielded from liability for what's posted so long as they subject a bunch of humans to it in order to filter it out, even if there's tons and tons of it posted constantly. We only have to have that in order to keep supporting the current ad-tech business models, which isn't a given. I'm not saying if…

That's a very arbitrary line that's really just based on you making a judgment call for things you like or against things you don't like. You'd probably do well in American politics.

I don't like subjecting a bunch of people to horrible images on an industrial scale, no. And I don't think "it's making us money and we can't think of a better way" is an excuse to keep it up.

[EDIT] and given that second sentence, no, I'd get nowhere in American politics.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same about Uber and the drama with drivers. If the work is so bad, pay so terrible, riders don’t want to pay more, then why hasn’t the market killed itself? Now we have gov externalities trying to legislate something that shouldn’t have existed? I’m not saying any of this is write or wrong, I’m just at a loss how people get mad at Uber when the model shouldn’t have made it. Where did the market dynamics g…

It will, but it will take a few years. The issue with Uber is they pay $0.70/mi for a task where the cost of fulfilling the task is $1.00. The drivers do it because they can get quick cash with no friction. You can already see the system breaking down. Uber XLs are getting older and shittier. 2012 Dodge Caravan that picked me up at the airport will be dead in a year. As the situation goes on, someone will die in a fi…

I always thought that the car age requirement was dumb. I drove a 2007 Subaru and it still worked perfectly. Another person I knew drove a 1997 BMW that's better than most Ubers I take.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That one paragraph about organs was enough to ruin my day, and it was just text. I'm surprised such a "rash of videos" wasn't in the news somewhere. I'm left wondering if it was a clip from a horror movie or something. Shitty to see, but not necessarily newsworthy like "live children chopped up for organs" would be.

No need to be left wondering. While I'm not sure these are the videos mentioned, it's not hard to find some just by googling for it. Or maybe don't, I wish I didn't.

Looks like the article itself linked the video they mentioned - turns out they were not harvesting any organs in that particular video

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#595
post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me start by saying that I am not running for elected office because it's a really hard job; even though I might believe I would do it with more integrity and rationality than the next person, I'm also smart enough to realize that everyone thinks that way and I'd probably end up within a standard deviation of average corruption. What I'm saying, seriously, is that we need a society-wide blameless post-mortem on so…

>In the meantime, it should be illegal to operate a social network So what about the countless number of people whose livelihoods depend on social media in some capacity? They're supposed to just be fine with being irrevocably fucked over until the moral panic about social media subsides? (or, in your words, "we decide what is good for us all") Where does the small business owner who depends on a social network facto…

I hear you saying you don't believe social media is addictive. Will you please kindly open the "digital wellbeing" app (or whatever it's called on iOS) on your phone and share the number of hours you've used social networks over the last week?

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#596
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can blame Facebook, but the reality is no one has a good solution. We can take a step backwards and eliminate Facebook, Insta, etc from our societies and enact legislation that will govern the second generation of social networks.

How does that solve the problem that the incoming content stream flows faster than any curation mechanism we can economically build today?

Well, first you slow the content stream by imposing a rate limit per-user, and users who post things that violate the policy are stopped from posting for a longer time.

Second, you do better at automatically detecting duplicate content that’s already been banned.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will, but it will take a few years. The issue with Uber is they pay $0.70/mi for a task where the cost of fulfilling the task is $1.00. The drivers do it because they can get quick cash with no friction. You can already see the system breaking down. Uber XLs are getting older and shittier. 2012 Dodge Caravan that picked me up at the airport will be dead in a year. As the situation goes on, someone will die in a fi…

I always thought that the car age requirement was dumb. I drove a 2007 Subaru and it still worked perfectly. Another person I knew drove a 1997 BMW that's better than most Ubers I take.

I drive a 2003 Honda. It’s a great car in great shape. If I used in as an urban livery vehicle, it wouldn’t be in great shape.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#598
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what a Victorian-era workhouse is?

If someone suffered more than you, your suffering is invalid - is that your argument? Trying to understand what you are arguing.

Workhouses were the UBI of the era. Sort of a combo welfare and prison.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#599
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very arbitrary line that's really just based on you making a judgment call for things you like or against things you don't like. You'd probably do well in American politics.

I don't like subjecting a bunch of people to horrible images on an industrial scale, no. And I don't think "it's making us money and we can't think of a better way" is an excuse to keep it up. [EDIT] and given that second sentence, no, I'd get nowhere in American politics.

So your solution here is that instead of all these people voluntarily seeking other jobs, their department shouldn't have a reason to exist, ergo shutdown Facebook and now all these people and more are involuntarily unemployed. Riight.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Said problem is that warehousing and distributing content scales insanely well but curation does not I don't think it's a problem any more than weather is a "problem" that required the invention of the roof. As far as user-generated content goes, it's easy to invent the hose, but the faucet is much more complex. It's irresponsible to provide only acceleration ("reach," "virality," etc.) for information without also…

I think you're view will change when you start putting numbers on it. I'm going to talk about the games in the app store example because it's the instance of the problem that I first thought about and it is easier to put a monetary value on an app than on a comment. Let's suppose Apple wants to make sure every game in their store gets at least 5 ratings. To do this they are going to pay people to play each game for 5…

I don’t understand your argument at all. Is 900k/year to curate a store that’s on almost all of their products (or even one) supposed to be a lot for Apple? Seems like a rounding error to me. Not too mention that the real benefit isn’t from finding gems but from not allowing rotten content to spoil your platform. If they(FAANGs) can poach neuroscientists with 7 figure salaries like we saw yesterday, they can afford to have humans do moderation and not treat those moderators like garbage. Also they aren’t doing comment moderation, but content, mostly videos in the article it seemed. The fact of the matter is causing PTSD in your workers is an enormous (not to mention cruel) externality that Facebook absolutely needs to be held accountable for.
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