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Joyent Public Cloud EOL

docs.joyent.com

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Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#281

Post by notacoward »

Annatar wrote: post #277
notacoward wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many things over the years, going all the way back to 1990 when I was at Encore dealing with all the dirty tricks they played to hobble competing NFS implementations, but that's not the point. My real issue with them is hubris . There's a certain cadre of Sun alumni, highly visible on forums such as this, who would have us believe that they were absolutely always doing the best work on the most important problem…

You know why Sun engineers are all that? They made all these technologies they invented wildly popular in professional, elite IT circles. There are still many people who have no clue who Bryan Cantrill or Jeff Bonwick or Matt Ahrens or Nicholas Droux are because they're not in that elite or enthusiast circle of IT professionals dealing with those technologies, but for us who understand what they do and their importan…

If you're going to persist in this kind of "I'm elite, you're no big deal" posturing (and borderline ad hominem) then we're done. This isn't about who's the biggest blog loudmouth. I don't care that you failed to find something to suit your narrow biased in interests in five minutes of stalking through my old blog two years after it was discontinued. Both Bonwick and Cantrill were able to find it when it mattered. They stopped by and we had a couple of interesting conversations. Those kinds of interactions are what matter.

Please, try learning something new instead of getting stuck on the first thing you found when you first entered the industry and spitting all over everything else. Go look through the conference proceedings, even from Sun's glory years, and you'll find plenty of papers from people elsewhere that have had a far more profound effect on software practice today. This fanboi behavior does nobody any good, least of all you.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#282

Post by pron »

bcantrill wrote: post #169
skrebbel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW when I asked the "what's Joyent all about" question I never expected or hoped this would become a "let's blame Bryan Cantrill for random shit" flamefest. I'm not sure where all of that is coming from and I'm sorry if somehow I triggered all that. You've been a great example to me and many others, in doing open source, in taking a principled stance (even if I subtly disagree with some of your principles) and also…

Hey, thanks for that! The HN comments here today have been full of surprises, not least the intense personalization of it all! I believe that our impact in the world is much more in the people we inspire than in those we rankle -- so in that regard, it's deeply gratifying to know that I have been of service; thank you!

> full of surprises, not least the intense personalization of it all!

I'm surprised you're surprised by this, considering that you have contributed much to the personalization of such matters. The personal "psychologization" of complex social dynamics is pretty much the trademark of many of your talks. If you find psychological explanations attractive, why are you surprised when others do, too?

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#283

Post by cbsmith »

notacoward wrote: post #261
cbsmith wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the distributed computing that the OP was referring to. Explicit reference was made to WAN-style networking that makes the crossbar switch effectively seem like motherboard traces.

Explicit reference was also made to NFS, which has nothing to do with WAN-style networking. The local Sun mafia are trying really hard to claim credit for distributed computing at all scales, and there's nothing off-topic about addressing one part.

WebNFS was explicitly designed to work over WAN, and it's predecessors allowed for and worked over WAN.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#284

Post by cbsmith »

notacoward wrote: post #276
Annatar wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sun mafia"? That's really uncalled for. Why are you angry with those people? What did they do, in your view, that makes them deserve such an insult?

Many many things over the years, going all the way back to 1990 when I was at Encore dealing with all the dirty tricks they played to hobble competing NFS implementations, but that's not the point. My real issue with them is hubris . There's a certain cadre of Sun alumni, highly visible on forums such as this, who would have us believe that they were absolutely always doing the best work on the most important problem…

> There's a certain cadre of Sun alumni, highly visible on forums such as this, who would have us believe that they were absolutely always doing the best work on the most important problems.

Well, I'd be the first to say that Sun was often doing substandard work. The implication that they were doing no work is just insane though.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#285

Post by cbsmith »

jen20 wrote: post #242
cbsmith wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they first started they used FreeBSD jails IIRC. Nope. Solaris Zones.

Incorrect. FreeBSD was in use first, as founder David Young’s own history [1] describes. OpenSolaris and zones came later. [1]: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/davidpaulyoung.com/2016/06/17...

Hrm.. I don't even remember them having a BSD jailed offering, but I'll take your evidence over my lack of evidence.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#286

Post by johannes1234321 »

nailer wrote: post #280
johannes1234321 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't neccisarily agree. There is space for "simple" hosting for some thing which is a bit more than just a (static/wordpreess) website, but not a large application, where cloud tooling setup is beneficial.

Sure but how much is that market growing?

As long as it is sustainable business it should be fine for companies in this domain.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#287

Post by Annatar »

notacoward wrote: post #281
Annatar wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know why Sun engineers are all that? They made all these technologies they invented wildly popular in professional, elite IT circles. There are still many people who have no clue who Bryan Cantrill or Jeff Bonwick or Matt Ahrens or Nicholas Droux are because they're not in that elite or enthusiast circle of IT professionals dealing with those technologies, but for us who understand what they do and their importan…

If you're going to persist in this kind of "I'm elite, you're no big deal" posturing (and borderline ad hominem) then we're done. This isn't about who's the biggest blog loudmouth. I don't care that you failed to find something to suit your narrow biased in interests in five minutes of stalking through my old blog two years after it was discontinued. Both Bonwick and Cantrill were able to find it when it mattered. Th…

It would do you well to stop being so hurt that you didn't get credit or recognition for the work you did. Why didn't you blog about it instead of being pissed off Sun engineers get the credit?

Yes I'm a big fan of their work, not least because their products work damn well, especially when solutions in GNU/Linux are compared to theirs. Did they screw up over the years? Yes they did, the USB subsystem in Solaris is an infamous fuck-up of epic proportions. Ironically it has nothing to do with distributed systems. But the things they really put effort into like Sun clustering, NFS and networking work and work damn well.

As for me and learning something new, I do that all of the time. The problem is that most of the new things coming out aren't new at all and certainly aren't better.

And you know what, for a passionate computer enthusiast, I'm sick and tired of IT and all this bullshit.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#288

Post by kragen »

cyphar wrote: post #229
Annatar wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life dealt with engineers so competent, professional and kind as the Sun Microsystems folks were. If they were technologically arrogant, they earned it: their inventions outlasted the company and live on in many products. I cannot name a single GNU/Linux "hacker" inventing anything. Everything they implemented is a shoddy copy of what the engineers at hp , SGI and Sun Microsystems did. They might h…

While I definitely agree that Sun, HP, and SGI had amazing engineering this section of your comment is particularly ridiculous: > I cannot name a single GNU/Linux "hacker" inventing anything. Everything they implemented is a shoddy copy of what the engineers at [...] did. If we ignore the obvious counter-arguments (GCC, Apache, nginx, arguably git, and so on), and just look at your statement at face value -- you're s…

> the obvious counter-arguments (GCC, Apache, nginx, arguably git...

...and Wikipedia, BitTorrent, the WWW (open-source, though developed on NeXTStep), the Objective-C compiler that made it possible, Emacs (and its idea of an extensible self-documenting editor), Perl, bash, the dpkg/apt system the app stores ape poorly, the CTAN and CPAN systems it derived from, most aspects of decentralized source control in the form of arch (and then later Mercurial and Git), rsync, Docker, Nix, GNU make, Python 3, gold (the linker), iptables, Enlightenment, the Hurd, MySQL, PNG, Pango, Numpy, IPython/Jupyter, Ruby, the X11 Render extension, LADSPA, Valgrind, asan/ubsan, basically everything on CPAN, all the inventions in x264, ...

I'm not sure Apache belongs in there, though. Rob McCool might take exception to being called a "GNU/Linux hacker", though I don't think Robert Thau would mind.

> There are obviously plenty of examples of Linux not learning from others (Jails/Zones vs containers, kqueue/IOCP vs epoll, ...

Oh c'mon, is the problem that Linux doesn't innovate enough or that Linux innovates too much? Epoll is an example of Linux arguably innovating too much.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#289

Post by _delirium »

mpanama wrote: post #75
foxhop wrote: post #3

That sucks really badly... Sad customer here.

Luckily the tech is still going strong, joyent and other are still there to push forward. There are also EOL partners ( https://docs.joyent.com/joyent-public-cloud-eol ) that you can migrate to quite easily. (Hint; were one of them)

Do any of the EOL partners run a public Manta install? I haven't found one yet. To me that's one of the harder to replace parts of JPC.
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