Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says • Hacker News Board

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#21

Post by xcklo » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:30 AM UTC

dev_north_east wrote: post #16

foldr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you need to take the downsides with that and stop moaning. This is the whole problem with the UK. Many of the current problems with London are fixable. People need to keep moaning about them in order to get them fixed.

Tbh I think the "easiest" single thing which would improve the UK immensely would be to ditch FPTP and bring in some type of PR voting.

What I will give your argument of moving is that once you have something to fix it usually already have become a feature for someone else. It is usually not realistic to fix much of anything so much as moving in another direction from a different position. I just don't see any places really doing that. Not that it would necessarily be visible, but people are looking. While certainly having slightly different criteria Nomad List for example doesn't feature much in the UK. https://nomadlist.com/

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#22

Post by vallode » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:32 AM UTC

dev_north_east wrote: post #14

foldr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically amounts to advising them not to live in a city (which is fine). But some people do like living in cities, and London is really the only option in the UK if you want to do that. No other city in the UK is anywhere close to London in terms of culture and economic opportunity. Yes, rents in Manchester and Birmingham are lower. But you're going to get paid less, you have to live in a second tier city, and…

> This basically amounts to advising them not to live in a city (which is fine). But some people do like living in cities, and London is really the only option in the UK if you want to do that. I'm gonna call bollocks on that :) I agree with the rest to an extent. You're going to be paid higher (well not everybody, but most HN readers would be) and have all the other advantages of London. Fine. But you need to take t…

Not sure I understand... you're gonna call bollocks on the idea that someone can have different likes and dislikes from you?

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#23

Post by tialaramex » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:34 AM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #10

dev_north_east wrote: post #5

My advice to "millenials" (well I think technically I'm one, so let's say younger ones) is to stay the hell away from London. I read these articles on the housing crisis and staggering rent amounts and wonder am I even living in the same country as these people.

> stay the hell away from London Will somewhat agree living in London, but I'd also throw Oxford into the mix as somewhere to avoid. I found the relative cost of living noticeably worse in Oxford (salary vs living costs) than compared to London. Essentially the main point being: really evaluate the cost of living, salary, lifestyle matrix before committing. Lots of other places in the UK offering much better options…

Oxford is different because of geography. In most places where housing is too expensive the core problem is politics. That's not easy to solve, but it's universal. But in Oxford the biggest obstacle is that the obvious place to put more houses is in fact a swamp.

For students it works out OK (so long as numbers don't grow too much) because the very wealthy people who paid for Oxford's university to exist built somewhere for students to live right inside the university too, in effect their housing costs are subsidised - until they graduate. Then though, either they need to move far away ASAP or they're going to be spending most of their income on rent.

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#24

Post by dev_north_east » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:37 AM UTC

foldr wrote: post #18

dev_north_east wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh I think the "easiest" single thing which would improve the UK immensely would be to ditch FPTP and bring in some type of PR voting.

That or turn London into a city state :)

As long as the City of London is independent of that!

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#25

Post by reallydontask » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:38 AM UTC

foldr wrote: post #13

dev_north_east wrote: post #5

My advice to "millenials" (well I think technically I'm one, so let's say younger ones) is to stay the hell away from London. I read these articles on the housing crisis and staggering rent amounts and wonder am I even living in the same country as these people.

This basically amounts to advising them not to live in a city (which is fine). But some people do like living in cities, and London is really the only option in the UK if you want to do that. No other city in the UK is anywhere close to London in terms of culture and economic opportunity. Yes, rents in Manchester and Birmingham are lower. But you're going to get paid less, you have to live in a second tier city, and…

My anecdotal evidence suggests that the London premium in salaries does not, anywhere near, compensate for the increased housing costs and/or commute time. Obviously, YMMV

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#26

Post by NeedMoreTea » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:44 AM UTC

Tsiklon wrote: post #20

dev_north_east wrote: post #5

My advice to "millenials" (well I think technically I'm one, so let's say younger ones) is to stay the hell away from London. I read these articles on the housing crisis and staggering rent amounts and wonder am I even living in the same country as these people.

Unfortunately the UK economy is very London centric. And the deck is very much stacked in London's favour due to the sheer numbers who live in London compared to the rest of the UK - (greater than 1/8th of all people in the UK live in London). I moved to London from a UK regional capital, and personally I've had the opportunity to improve my earnings much further than would be achievable at home for my particular bra…

You've increased your earnings, but if you run the numbers it's very unlikely you're actually better off unless you have a property appreciating at London speed.

Over my career (I did contract in London around y2k) I have more in my pocket each month - after expenses - by staying outside the SE. Rent or mortgage, commuting costs, the price of everything else - food, beer, tickets. Sure, I could earn £x extra and have to spend all of it and more on rent and getting to work.

The capital accumulation on the house would have turned it into making economic sense, and only that. Which only becomes real once you move out of the area.

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#27

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:47 AM UTC

Tsiklon wrote: post #20

dev_north_east wrote: post #5

My advice to "millenials" (well I think technically I'm one, so let's say younger ones) is to stay the hell away from London. I read these articles on the housing crisis and staggering rent amounts and wonder am I even living in the same country as these people.

Unfortunately the UK economy is very London centric. And the deck is very much stacked in London's favour due to the sheer numbers who live in London compared to the rest of the UK - (greater than 1/8th of all people in the UK live in London). I moved to London from a UK regional capital, and personally I've had the opportunity to improve my earnings much further than would be achievable at home for my particular bra…

[deleted]

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#28

Post by wastedhours » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:54 AM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #23

wastedhours wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stay the hell away from London Will somewhat agree living in London, but I'd also throw Oxford into the mix as somewhere to avoid. I found the relative cost of living noticeably worse in Oxford (salary vs living costs) than compared to London. Essentially the main point being: really evaluate the cost of living, salary, lifestyle matrix before committing. Lots of other places in the UK offering much better options…

Oxford is different because of geography. In most places where housing is too expensive the core problem is politics. That's not easy to solve, but it's universal. But in Oxford the biggest obstacle is that the obvious place to put more houses is in fact a swamp. For students it works out OK (so long as numbers don't grow too much) because the very wealthy people who paid for Oxford's university to exist built somewh…

> Oxford's university to exist built somewhere for students to live right inside the university too

For those it's true, but also forgetting there's more than one university in Oxford. There are plenty of places on the East and North sides of the city where denser housing could have been placed, but it comes down more to politics around NIMBYism and preservation, more than geography.

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#29

Post by reallydontask » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:55 AM UTC

dev_north_east wrote: post #16

foldr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you need to take the downsides with that and stop moaning. This is the whole problem with the UK. Many of the current problems with London are fixable. People need to keep moaning about them in order to get them fixed.

Tbh I think the "easiest" single thing which would improve the UK immensely would be to ditch FPTP and bring in some type of PR voting.

If we had a PR voting system and the PM resigned. What would happen?

Would a general election be called?

It's a bit farcical that the country will have a PM that was not the leader of the governing party at the last election.

Granted with the Brexit mess they could arguably have some legitimate reasons for not calling it straight away but it seems that they've all ruled out calling it at all, AFAIK.

Re: Young adults have less to spend on non-essentials, study says

#30

Post by RickJWagner » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 11:58 AM UTC

Totally intuitive. Kids have always been broke.

It's a trope seen in movies and tv shows that go back several decades, because it mirrors real life. In the early working years, people have never had much money. (Fortunately, this later corrects.)