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Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

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Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#991
post #853

Let's play a game of predictions. Regardless of HN's opinion of Facebook (and regardless of my own for that matter) I predict that this thing will work. This is only one thing my crystal ball showed me. Facebook's presence in developing economies is massive. To the point of being synonymous with "The Internet" in a number of places. But they've had a nagging problem. People in these economies consume contents, but do…

This is eye opening. Banking in many African economies came from an unexpected place: basic non-smart cell phones and the ability to transfer relatively small amounts of money quickly, reliably, and without a bank account. I can see Facebook leveraging its foothold in such economies and providing the same service. Wow.

Are there many ways to use anything from FB on a non-smart phone with no internet?

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#993
post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

Gotta say it: it ain't just HN that doesn't like Facebook :)

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#994
post #853

Let's play a game of predictions. Regardless of HN's opinion of Facebook (and regardless of my own for that matter) I predict that this thing will work. This is only one thing my crystal ball showed me. Facebook's presence in developing economies is massive. To the point of being synonymous with "The Internet" in a number of places. But they've had a nagging problem. People in these economies consume contents, but do…

no privacy at all in Libra. We will lose our financial privacy. Better to use a privacy coin i.e Monero or better Mimblewimble's coins such as Grin but especially Beam.

Or zkSNARKs/Nightfall on Ethereum.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#995
I do not think Zuckerberg’s ultimate goal is running a stable coin, although he could live with that arrangement and benefit from it for as long as necessary. I think the main reason Facebook has structured the coin with fiat backing is to make it seem less threatening to the current monetary establishment and world governments. It’s a way of saying Facebook isn’t trying to compete with the current status quo, but rather make the status quo run more smoothly and efficiently. Then, once it has a foot in the door and gains traction amongst its massive user base, all Facebook has to do is wait until the current assortment of global governments and their respective central banks fail.

At that stage it can remove the fiat currency backing (who will want it anyway), and let FacebookCoin free float. With the credibility of global governments and central banks in the toilet by then, Facebook and its corporate oligarch partners will be in a prime position to take over a sizable chunk of worldwide payments using their own currency. In other words, this appears to be a long-term scheme by elements of corporate oligarchy to position themselves as an unelected and unaccountable future sovereign power.

All that said, I want to be clear about something. Just because the above represents a plausible scenario doesn’t mean it’ll work out that way. If enough people recognize the dangers of this scheme, it could very well be stopped in its tracks.

In this regard, I want to highlight one of the biggest threats posed by a financial system run by a corporate oligarchy. For one thing, there’s the ever-present issue of censorship. I understand why many in the “crypto” world are fine with FacebookCoin since they see it as a threat to state power and control, but this is myopic in my view. Let’s not forget who is silencing the voices of Americans online in 2019. It’s not the state, but rather Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. If we allow these companies to gain control of payments, you can be sure the same sort of unaccountable blacklisting will follow in the world of transactions.

Also, similar to what many of the tech giants have done with speech, Facebook could easily team up with governments or government linked deep-state type entities to stop transactions or freeze the accounts of “problematic” citizens. It would be a very convenient way to get around the rule of law in a place like the U.S., and would represent a perfect symbiotic relationship of tyranny between what could at that point be a vestigial state apparatus and empowered tech giant oligarchs.

Ultimately, what’s going on here gets at the crux of everything I’m trying to discuss at Liberty Blitzkrieg. Namely, that the old world is dying and the most important thing that’ll occur over any of our lifetimes is the sort of world we create, or allow to be created, in its wake.

The launching of FacebookCoin represents one segment of corporate oligarchy throwing its hat in the ring, and a very dangerous one at that given the already existing dominance of tech giants in the communications realm. From my perspective, communications and money are two aspects of human existence so fundamental to liberty they should remain as free and uninhibited as possible. To trust these things to a collection of billionaires and their corporations would represent the pinnacle of short-sightedness and insanity.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#996
post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook's hold in developing economies is true. But developing economy's hold on their Fiat currency is true as well. So much so that, India is planning to jail anyone who is holding cryptocurrency for 10 years[1]! If this legislation passes, any computer scientist, mathematician, programmer who is working with crypto tokens & block chain can technically be held liable for possessing a crypto currency when they run…

> Yes, the plan to jail those who hold cryptocurrency in a democratic country is preposterous No it isn’t. We jail people who hold child pornography in democratic countries as well. The core of a democratic country is that it’s governed by democratically elected representatives, not that it’s citizens be allowed access to whatever they want independent of criminal consequences. I get you and others are calling to the…

> I get you and others are calling to the sentiment of “how can we be free if we aren’t free to x” but the value of that sentiment isn’t independent of what X is.

Do you propose an objective criteria by which a state can legitimately dictate behavior on one set of Xs and not another set of Xs? If not, then you are by omission saying that every totalitarian state is legitimate. I suspect you might want to say, if the 51% wants something, that makes it legitimate. In that case you are're saying a murderous state is legitimate. (I won't go full Godwyn here, but suffice to say that many democratically elected regimes have committed legal murder on a massive scale and continued to enjoy majority support.)

Hey, here's an idea for an objective criteria: Does X invade any other particular person's life, liberty or property? Banning crypto fails that test.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#997
post #853

Let's play a game of predictions. Regardless of HN's opinion of Facebook (and regardless of my own for that matter) I predict that this thing will work. This is only one thing my crystal ball showed me. Facebook's presence in developing economies is massive. To the point of being synonymous with "The Internet" in a number of places. But they've had a nagging problem. People in these economies consume contents, but do…

I predict that Libra will work for a while, but will eventually be overshadowed either by competitors or by the new markets that it enables. There's this pattern I've noticed where every major tech company, once initial traction has been established, gets three pivots. You can think of them as adolescence, mid-life, and rebirth. The first pivot happens when the company is 5-8 years old (since the 1970s at least; olde…

I want to frame this comment. Beautifully articulated, thank you

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#998

I would never ever ever ever trust PayPal, Spotify, Mastercard and the likes to manage my money. It simply sounds like lots and lots and lots of happy little "accidents" and "bugs" waiting to happen for political opponents as they lose their livelihoods. The people who came up with the whole "Manifest Observable Behavior" and random "Suspended for Breach of Community Standards" violations have no place around anyone'…

Manifest observable behavior is just an evidence-based way to determine breach of policy[0]. It's literally the most rational way to go about enforcing policy. Insofar as suspensions seem "random" because they're done by fast and loose algorithms (which are the only enforcement mechanism that scales), I agree though: that shit sucks, and it affects many sides. Many sides. When Zuckerberg was in front of Congress, he…

PayPal keeps suspending accounts on a whim, also. Even before the politics vs Internet debate became a part of the zeitgeist, people pretty much daily woke up to find their accounts locked and their account balance lost forever. Stuff like that worries me because the political stu7is a new fad and might eventually pass but most of these companies play really fast and loose with their users lives.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is eye opening. Banking in many African economies came from an unexpected place: basic non-smart cell phones and the ability to transfer relatively small amounts of money quickly, reliably, and without a bank account. I can see Facebook leveraging its foothold in such economies and providing the same service. Wow.

Are there many ways to use anything from FB on a non-smart phone with no internet?

I was making the point that banking innovation can come from surprising places, like dumb phones, or social networks.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#1000
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