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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#301

Post by TallGuyShort »

zhte415 wrote: post #106
arethuza wrote: post #15

Maybe Facebook should make all of their own employees do 15 minutes of moderation per day - just to share the pain out a bit....

This makes complete sense. Why pigeon hole employees into, well, pigeon holes? Technology, Operations, Marketing, more. Each understanding more about each others' roles, challenges, solutions. A knowledge organisation is based on knowledge. I'd favour a scale that could be chosen, 5-50% outside of core role. [Clarity: Am not a Facebook employee.]

I suspect it would come with a "manager's discretion" clause that would ultimately effectively eliminate it, like 20% time at Google.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#302

Post by save_ferris »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #238
save_ferris wrote: post #43

It’s strange how quiet the pro-Facebookers become on threads like these. Yesterday, we saw a lot of energy around Libra on both sides of the Facebook spectrum. I’d love to hear an argument from someone defending this company that isn’t “everybody does it.”

Sometimes “everybody does it” is the appropriate response. I’m absolutely in favor of Facebook giving everyone more money and better working conditions and generally making their lives a pleasure. But when they sometimes fail to do that, in predictable ways that other companies also fail at, “Facebook specifically is evil and we’ve got to destroy it” is just not a reasonable reaction.

This is an example of default bias. By your logic, one could make the argument that we shouldn't hold the president accountable for lies he tells because it's generally accepted that all politicians lie. Regardless of your political leanings, should that ever, ever be true?

That argument simply doesn't hold up. Calling out specific, concrete bad behavior should never be defended with "everybody does it." Sure, there's argument to be made that seeking to destroy Facebook is an overreaction, but that's different than arguing that everybody does it, which completely excuses that bad behavior.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#304

Post by noisy_boy »

spunker540 wrote: post #73

“But had his managers asked, they would have learned that Speagle had a history of anxiety and depression“ Should employers really be asking about mental health history during the hiring process?

Maybe they should have checked his Facebook history.

My decision to delete my account from this toxic spider web of a platform is affirmed regularly by the frequent revelations of their immoral behavior.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#305

Post by gopher2 »

Would be interested in seeing some kind of legislation where content moderation jobs that deal with XYZ categories of content must be compensate at least some % downtime/recovery. So e.g. in an 8 hour day you can only spend 4 hours a day doing moderation, and 4 hours of 'paid mental preparation' for doing the moderation work.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#306

Post by bagacrap »

bksenior wrote: post #252

You ever read Upton Sinclair's the jungle? It's a tale as old as time. Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws. This is a major reason the media works this way, it's part of American democracy.

There's a key difference there: the practices described in the jungle directly affected the population at large, by way of the food they ate. The kind of exposé in tfa requires the masses to have collective empathy.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#307

Post by [deleted] »

johnkpaul wrote: post #183
anon029102 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can anyone at Facebook speak to whether engineers are aware of the working conditions of moderators, and agitate to improve their lot? They are passively aware but mostly don't care. The engineers who express frustration are in the vast minority. Most engineers are just super happy about their own situations, very focused on PSCs, and try to keep to their own stuff. Any internal frustrations are channelled towards…

PSCs?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#308

Post by baron_harkonnen »

_bxg1 wrote: post #129

I think the most pertinent question is why don't they quit ? It says a great deal about how broken the United States' job market and social safety net are. If minimum wage were $15, they could find another job that paid their basic living expenses. If health care weren't left up to your employer, they wouldn't be out of luck while looking for a different job. If there were any alternative , they wouldn't stay in this…

In general folks working in in-demand areas of tech are pretty out of touch with how hard it is it "just quit" a job. If you're an engineer or data scientist making $200k+ then you very likely have some moderate savings to cushion you between jobs and will have no trouble finding a new job and getting a slight raise. If you make over $200k, you are getting that much because your skills are in demand and employers need to pay that much.

If you're making $30K you certainly don't have any kind of buffer to hold you over between jobs, and don't have skills that are attractive to employers. Even basic things like interviewing are much harder. An engineer or data scientist can pretty much disappear from their desk for an entire day and no one will ask questions, you don't need time off for an interview, and if you do you likely have tons of leave. Someone making 30k most likely has to give notice of vacation many weeks in advance, if they even have leave benefits at all. And because your skills are less in demand your interview success rate is going to be much lower so you'll need even more time to interview.

It's likely very hard for these people to find new jobs even if they hate their current one, they are probably happy just to have income.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#309

Post by meruru »

marak830 wrote: post #286
meruru wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>likely going to acquire mental illnesses I find hard to believe humans are so sensitive that some visual stimulation is going to give them mental illnesses. We evolved in an environment where violence was part of real life and a real threat to our own well being, seeing it on a screen will elicit emotions we may not be used to in modern life, but causing mental illness is a stretch.

Id like to preface, I'm not trying to reduce what these people are going through. But it's relative. I grew up on farms, I've slaughtered animals and I've seen seemingly stable 30 year olds completely break down when they see a video of an animal being humanely slaughtered. I've also heard stories from mates of mine in the military that I'd prefer not to see on video. People are desensitised from things they are rais…

>People are desensitised from things they are raised with

From my own experience, that's not required. I grew up pretty sheltered myself and I have no problem seeing that kind of content occasionally. Maybe it would be a different story if I were being exposed to this sort of content constantly. I don't know.

That said, I hadn't actually read the article when I posted and found it pretty surprising. It seems there's a lot going on there.

>seemingly stable 30 year olds completely break down when they see a video of an animal being humanely slaughtered.

My reaction was more about things like this. I tend to think that's an overreaction and at least partially feigned and self-deceptive.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#310

Post by _bxg1 »

jedimastert wrote: post #299
bena wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but a common theme among many of the stories is how much more they pay compared to other places. These people are literally trading dollars for their mental health. That is the choice they are making.

Yeah, 28,000 was barely a livable wage in the incredibly low-cost city I used to live in. I can't even imagine trying to live on it in the cost-of-living-helscape that is silicon valley.

Technically the offices are in Phoenix, Austin, and Tampa. Still, those are major U.S. cities.
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