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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

theverge.com

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#261

Post by _bxg1 »

zodiac wrote: post #257
_bxg1 wrote: post #129

I think the most pertinent question is why don't they quit ? It says a great deal about how broken the United States' job market and social safety net are. If minimum wage were $15, they could find another job that paid their basic living expenses. If health care weren't left up to your employer, they wouldn't be out of luck while looking for a different job. If there were any alternative , they wouldn't stay in this…

> If minimum wage were $15, they could find another job that paid their basic living expenses. Why is this necessarily true? Couldn't it be the case that minimum wage were $15 but they still couldn't find any other job?

Currently we have a surplus of actual jobs, it's just that a large number of them pay sub-living wages. If those were forced to pay more - even if it meant some of them disappeared - many more people would have the opportunity to climb out of poverty.

Edit: I may have misspoken when I said "surplus". What I was referring to is the very low unemployment rate we currently have, despite large numbers of people - with "jobs" - continuing to live in near-poverty.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#262

Post by bloopernova »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #77
arethuza wrote: post #3

Just a warning - I found even a short description of some of the videos they had to watch fairly disturbing. I don't think I could do that job for very long - let alone in a badly run, high pressure environment with low wages.

There's a lot of variance between individuals. Given the choice this sounds like an overall better job than working a busy McDonald's drive through (people are assholes when they're hungry) but I'm not the kind of person that's particularly bothered by graphic violence. My opinion of humanity is dark enough to accommodate it. I'm sure many people would prefer McDonald's though. Some of the people interviewed were com…

I think perhaps people feel that you are minimizing the horror and repulsiveness of the content by saying that these moderators have a better job than working at a fast food restaurant.

My wife, who has worked in a busy McDonald's for 5 years, says this sort of moderation is far, far worse than anything she had to deal with. And she's had to deal with human waste, violence, and direct verbal abuse from customers.

Your point about making the working environment better is a valid one, but think it is overshadowed by your assertion that the horrific content is acceptable to "many people".

Your views do resonate with some people on Reddit though. I remember saying that I didn't like the pained yelps, limping, and whining of Dogmeat in Fallout 4, and I was attacked and ridiculed for that. I know I wouldn't last more than a minute at this Facebook moderation job, it would scar me for life. I don't think that means I'm "wrong", any more than your views are "right".

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#263

Post by corey_moncure »

arethuza wrote: post #3

Just a warning - I found even a short description of some of the videos they had to watch fairly disturbing. I don't think I could do that job for very long - let alone in a badly run, high pressure environment with low wages.

It makes me aware of a curious dichotomy about content moderation on Facebook. On one hand, they have publicly committed to stem the flow of "Fake News", whatever that means, on their platform. Now on the other hand, we have this article about the suffering of contractors who's task is to block content that is too real. I guess this places Facebook's platform into a category with theme parks like Disney Land, where they aim at maintaining a precarious balance somewhere between the fake and the real.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#265

Post by hinkley »

debacle wrote: post #185
sandworm101 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If it's a shit job that isn't worth the pay, people won't do it. That assumes perfect knowledge. As mentioned in the article, these moderators often do not understand what they are getting into until long after they have committed to the job. Once you have quit a previous job, moved, setup your new life, only then do you realize your new "brand consultant" job means watching kittens die all day. Jobs like this als…

Nobody moves for $30k a year.

Username checks out.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#266

Post by tomp »

dalore wrote: post #159

If they made engineers take turns working in the content moderation you would soon see all sorts of improvements (like the aforementioned ability to recognize duplicate content for starters). They would hate it so much, that would make better tooling. But now they don't have to know about it, just send images to the moderation team over and over like they are robots.

The engineers would just make the filtering AI better.

End result: engineers paid $250k, moderators unemployed making $0k.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#267

Post by p1esk »

Sharlin wrote: post #256
p1esk wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about training a classifier to detect and remove potentially bad stuff, then let the users who uploaded it argue that the classifier made a mistake? Only in those cases have human moderators look at it?

They already have classifiers, of course. It's not like the moderators go through everything posted to FB–you'd need millions of people to do that. What the mods actually do, presumably, is review content reported by users.

Then perhaps they need better classifiers? I don’t remember seeing any papers from FB about that, so it does not seem like a priority for them. Or just make the existing bad classifiers more aggressive and shift the moderator’s effort to reviewing good content.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#268

Post by rootlocus »

redm wrote: post #220
rawrmaan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously didn't read the article.

Actually, I did, obviously. I feel I have a much better picture of contracted centers like the one described in the article than a sensationalizing story from The Verge could inform me of though.

You said:

> If they took the time to have “relaxation” rooms, i doubt its as bad as the story makes it out to be.

The article said:

> Facebook contractors are required to use a browser extension to report every time they use the restroom, but during a recent illness, Lola quickly took all her allotted breaks. She had previously been written up for going to the bathroom too many times, she said, and so she felt afraid to get up from her desk. A manager saw that she was not feeling well, and brought a trash can to her desk so she could vomit in it. So she did.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#269

Post by toss1 »

toss1 wrote: post #140

>> "Speagle vividly recalls the first video he saw in his new assignment. Two teenagers spot an iguana on the ground, and one picks it up by the tail. A third teenager films what happens next: the teen holding the iguana begins smashing it onto the street. “They beat the living shit out of this thing,” Speagle told me, as tears welled up in his eyes. “The iguana was screaming and crying. And they didn’t stop until th…

At the very least, FB must be held to account as editors.

FB vigorously opposes this.

However, with 1) a staff of 30K++ screeners, 2) who knows how many moderators, etc, 3) many layers of management decisions and policy on what is and is not allowed on the platform and the reasons why/why not, 4) extensive human & algorithmic promotion and demotion of content, they are absolutely actively editing their site. This is arguably even more extensive editing than from any print or media organization.

The only reason FB wants to avoid the "editing" label is so they can edit as they please. I.e., they want to edit for 'engagement' and profit, not for social responsibility.

This cannot remain out of control without consequences, which we are already seeing in society.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#270

Post by specialist »

cabaalis wrote: post #223
bumby wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we don't have those Ayn Rand-ian free markets for a reason. We have a whole host of workers rights in the U.S. because society realized that leaving everything up to free markets to take advantage of what they can may lead to bad outcomes.

Don't we still enjoy the results of those "bad outcomes", though? Huge cities built, railways across the country, massive industries and technology advancements from the period?

All of those outcomes were initially paid for by government, meaning us taxpayers.

For instance, railroads were given huge land grants.

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