Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 251 posts

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#181

Post by pier25 »

anm89 wrote: post #142
Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

As someone who agrees with your suggestion as to how serious climate change is, I've come to think asking individuals to change their behavior to fix the problem is actually counter productive. People generally want to do the right thing and they want to matter whereas in my experience the average person is not a great systems thinker. So people are very receptive to calls to "be better" because it let's them fight f…

There isn't much the individual can do to fix climate change.

Even if you went completely off the grid to live in the woods outside of the industrial civilization eating plants etc this wouldn't fix anything.

Yes, you would certainly reduce your emissions but this is not nearly enough.

Even if a miracle happened and we reached global zero emissions today there are already 415ppm in the atmosphere which will remain there for thousands of years.

Because of climate lag we are now only seeing the effects from the emissions from the 70s and early 80s. Even in 30-40 years when we can see the effects from our current emissions it will not stop there. There are many self sustaining climatic systems that will have been triggered and will continue to change the climate.

Humanity needs to invest all possible resources into clean energy and carbon sequestration. If we don't go all in during the next decade we are done.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#182

Post by ryanobjc »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #113

Canada, Siberia.....both of these areas have been relatively untouched/unexploited due to the permafrost issue and generally inhospitable weather. But they represent a HUGE portion of the global land area.... So why aren't we looking at climate change as opening up vast tracts of the northern hemisphere to settlement and exploitation?

Because the land sucks. It just sucks.

Tundra when thawed isn't some magical land. It's all swamp basically.

GOOD LUCK with 100' deep bogs all over the place!

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#183

Post by pier25 »

akeck wrote: post #84

How reasonable is the Clathrate Gun hypothesis? https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

It's already happening and every time they estimate how much methane is trapped in the ice and permafrost that number becomes bigger.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#184

Post by madengr »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #120
Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

We're not doing anything to tackle it. Nearly every country is still increasing emissions. And nothing individuals do will be enough. The top causes of CO2 emissions are industrial power generation, production of concrete, resource extraction, deforestation/burning forests and transportation. Fact is, the world's population is still increasing, developing countries will still develop, developed countries won't reduce…

The problem is the Green New Deal politicians also want to ban guns and socialize healthcare and college education. If they would stick to climate, maybe they would do better.

I like my guns and EV; don’t know why they have to be antipodal in politics.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#185

Post by perfunctory »

john_moscow wrote: post #180
perfunctory wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except a single factory in China emits more CO2 than all the readers of this HN thread combined This is just not true. World's richest 10% produce half of global carbon emissions [0] I would guess a fair share of HN readers are in the top 10% [0] https://www-cdn.oxfam.org/s3fs-public/file_attachments/mb-ex...

Still China outputs more than 2x the U.S. volume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Don't forget that U.S has outsourced its industry to China. Just look at the current trade balance. It's all over the news now thanks to the trade war. And the reason it was outsourced is precisely because environmental regulations are weaker in China and therefore production is cheaper. And on top of that you add shipping emissions, which are not included in any country emissions.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#186

Post by fooblitzky »

anm89 wrote: post #142
Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

As someone who agrees with your suggestion as to how serious climate change is, I've come to think asking individuals to change their behavior to fix the problem is actually counter productive. People generally want to do the right thing and they want to matter whereas in my experience the average person is not a great systems thinker. So people are very receptive to calls to "be better" because it let's them fight f…

Enough individual action can create a political climate that enables an appropriate governmental response.

For example, when every home has roof-top solar, everyone is riding bikes or scooters, growing food locally, not flying, etc. It's harder for politicians to create new subsidies for coal mining, or tax concessions for airlines. Instead they will be more likely to pass carbon fee and dividend schemes or similar.

On the other hand, while everyone continues to drive around in SUVs, buy cheap goods from China, long haul flights all the time, and food from the other side of the world, it's easy for politicians to maintain the status quo.

Individual action can't solve climate change by itself. But it is still meaningful and necessary. Our actions influence the actions of others around us, and we can redefine "normal" for our society. Studies have shown that somewhere between 10 and 20% of a population acting in a new way are enough to shift the opinions of the remaining majority.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#187

Post by fooblitzky »

_ph_ wrote: post #101
sunshinelackof wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> voting exclusively on how credible a politician is on tackling global warming This is really the only important thing that we can do. Except maybe not flying in an airplane, there is little the average person can do in their daily life to inhibit climate change. Whether due to preventive policies or due to resource shortages our lives will change in the near future. Expecting individuals to shame themselves when th…

There are a few more things a person can do to fight global warming: - most of all, speak out for reneweable energies and against coal - if possible use some solar yourself - try to buy an electric car or a real fuel efficient one, don't drive too much - in general, try to use energy efficient devices

Ride a bike!

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#188

Post by lm28469 »

john_moscow wrote: post #180
perfunctory wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except a single factory in China emits more CO2 than all the readers of this HN thread combined This is just not true. World's richest 10% produce half of global carbon emissions [0] I would guess a fair share of HN readers are in the top 10% [0] https://www-cdn.oxfam.org/s3fs-public/file_attachments/mb-ex...

Still China outputs more than 2x the U.S. volume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

To be fair China is basically the factory of the world, manufacturing a lot of the gadgets that are mostly used in 1st world countries.

It's pretty clear that if the west consumed less China wouldn't pollute nearly as much. So yes, everybody has a choice, either be actively part of it or try to pollute as little as possible.

You're saying "the impact of one person is limited therefore no one should take action". I'd argue that everyone should take action, show the example in your home, local community, &c. Little by little people get more engaged, just look at the green parties in Europe, 20 years ago they barely got 1% of votes in elections, now they get >20% in some countries.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#189

Post by fooblitzky »

perfunctory wrote: post #127
Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

> As citizens, I encourage everyone to reducing their carbon footprint as much as possible (yes, that means that your life gets comfortable) and voting exclusively on how credible a politician is on tackling global warming. I would just like to add. Absolutely vote. But please don't use it as an excuse to do nothing yourself. While you are waiting for politicians to act, start acting now. In case you are wondering wh…

Also - ride a bike. As well as being emissions-free, it encourages your city to build more bicycling infrastructure, which will make it more possible to get around without a car, and encourage others to ride too.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#190

Post by pier25 »

Everyone here is focused on reducing emissions and such but quite frankly this is only a small part of the problem.

Let's assume today, right now, humanity has found a miracle to produce zero emissions.

First let's consider climate lag [1]. There is a 40ish year delay between emissions and effects on the climate. So this means we are now only seeing the effects from the emissions from the late 70s early 80s. Here's the worst part, we have emitted more GHG in the last 40 years than the previous 150 before that. So, we have a huge climate bill coming for us.

Second, carbon will remain in the atmosphere for thousands of years[3]. Nobody knows how that will affect the planet but it's not going to be good.

Third. Consider self sustaining climatic systems usually called feedbacks like methane [2]. The hotter it is, the more methane is released to the atmosphere, so it becomes hotter, so there is more methane in the atmosphere, etc. There are dozens of climatic feedbacks which only god knows when those will stop.

I'm not writing this in a defeatist tone. Quite the contrary. We need to fucking wake up to the reality of this crisis. Humanity has to go all-in and pour all possible resources into clean energy, energy storage, and carbon sequestration.

[1] https://skepticalscience.com/Climate-Change-The-40-Year-Dela...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_feedback

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jan/16/greenhou...

Post reply on HN