Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted • Hacker News Board

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#121

Post by jordanbeiber » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #115

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

Except a single factory in China emits more CO2 than all the readers of this HN thread combined. So all you are going to do by minimizing your own carbon footprint is make your own life miserable and free up the resources for someone who doesn't give a damn. And I am sorry to say that, but I don't think that a global framework enforcing the same environmental restrictions on every country in the world, regardless of…

What is it spewing out co2 for, and for whom? Never mind the toxic waste from chemicals dumped in rivers.

Turn every thing you own upside down and find the scripture "Made in China".

Any clues?

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#122

Post by crispinb » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

canidiarus wrote: post #88

crispinb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what you mean by "we". Homo sapiens has enormous cultural flexibility (though clearly, as the worldwide ecosystem collapse shows, this doesn't scale). So groups of humans will continue to live. But our global civilisation will inevitably collapse. No-one can predict in detail what that will entail, but we can be sure it won't be pretty.

Like how toxic the remnants of civilization will be for the surviving tribes? The collapse of society won't be an orderly process...

There's no serious prospect of the whole planet being too 'toxic' for human groups to exist here and there. Even the probable nuclear wars aren't going to leave everything uninhabitable.

The sheer amount of suffering and destruction involved between here and there, human and more-than-human like, will be catastrophic. Everything present-day humans know and love will be gone. The existence of small groups surviving marginally in the crumbling remnants of our our once-magnificent ecosystems is no silver lining worth caring about.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#123

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #101

sunshinelackof wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> voting exclusively on how credible a politician is on tackling global warming This is really the only important thing that we can do. Except maybe not flying in an airplane, there is little the average person can do in their daily life to inhibit climate change. Whether due to preventive policies or due to resource shortages our lives will change in the near future. Expecting individuals to shame themselves when th…

There are a few more things a person can do to fight global warming: - most of all, speak out for reneweable energies and against coal - if possible use some solar yourself - try to buy an electric car or a real fuel efficient one, don't drive too much - in general, try to use energy efficient devices

[deleted]

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#124

Post by lexpar » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

dvorak365 wrote: post #21

pfisch wrote: post #7

Maybe I don't understand the ramifications of this, but it kind of sounds like we missed the offramp where we just stop burning carbon. Shouldn't we just be moving to something drastic like a massive sun shade project ASAP?

Climate engineering to stop global warming seems to me like trying to remove a bullet by shooting it out from the other side

The trade offs get really funny.

If we think it's really the case that most wild animals will perish in the climate upheaval, then doesn't that change the math a bit on how much risk we should be willing to accept when it comes to climate engineering? If the wealthiest humans could probably adapt to +5c, but a billion poorer ones would die, how much does that change the math?

Personally I'd be willing to accept quite a lot of risk to avoid these awful outcomes.

AFAIK the plans to put sulfur into the stratosphere are modeled on exactly what a volcano does, i.e. a natural process. Of course it could turn out bad, but it doesn't sound to me like a totally out-of-bounds idea.

Maybe someone with a better background could tell me otherwise? I only know about computers.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#125

Post by NeedMoreTea » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

overthemoon wrote: post #80

cardamomo wrote: post #65

The oft-quoted opening of David Wallace-Wells's "The Uninhabitable Earth" comes to mind. Reviews have generally only included his first sentence: "It is worse, much worse, than you think." Here is his entire opening paragraph: > It is worse, much worse, than you think. The slowness of climate change is a fairy tale, perhaps as pernicious as the one that says it isn't happening at all, and comes to us bundled with sev…

Curious about what he means by "that wealth can be a shield against the ravages of warming". That is--I can see a case for the wealth of a nation not being a shield for every citizen, but I wonder whether the very rich could weather climate change for a long time. But I suppose that's not the same thing as being totally unaffected.

What's a currency, asset or web business going to be worth if the economy breaks globally, there's a major crash and depression, or wars break out over migrants, resources or water?

Weimar Republic made vast wealth disappear in moments. The US civil war came awfully close to full-on hyper inflation.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#126

Post by twp » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:20 PM UTC

cabaalis wrote: post #41

> The vista had dissolved into an undulating sea of hummocks - waist-high depressions and ponds known as thermokarst. Vegetation, once sparse, had begun to flourish in the shelter provided from the constant wind. I understand the threat. I'm curious why the change described above though isn't somewhat welcome. It would seem that--at least temporarily--areas that are habitable now will become inhospitable, while areas…

Crops grow in soil. Soil is not just land area. It has an entire history that made it the fertile earth that it is today. You don't get fertile earth by taking permafrost and warming it.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#127

Post by perfunctory » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:20 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

> As citizens, I encourage everyone to reducing their carbon footprint as much as possible (yes, that means that your life gets comfortable) and voting exclusively on how credible a politician is on tackling global warming.

I would just like to add. Absolutely vote. But please don't use it as an excuse to do nothing yourself. While you are waiting for politicians to act, start acting now. In case you are wondering what you can do yourself - here is a short list

- Stop flying to conferences. Go to a local meetup. It's fun. And cheaper. If you really need to get out of town, take a train. Let's hope one day Prometheus will give us carbon-neutral jet fuel https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240

- Shift your investments from fossil to green. If you can't find enough worthy greens, shift it to anything else. Some say it won't impact your returns http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/news/the-mythical-per... Move your deposits and savings to a more sustainable bank. https://fairfinanceguide.org

- Work less. Work part time, and part of that part time remotely. http://cepr.net/documents/publications/climate-change-worksh... A firm lets its employees work four days a week while being paid for five. Everyone is happy, lower electricity bills, fewer cars on the road https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/world/asia/four-day-workw...

- Reduce your meat consumption as much as you can. They say these new vega burgers are not too bad. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climat...

Thank you.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#128

Post by pdonis » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:20 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

> Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced

No, it isn't. It's not even close. We can adapt to climate change.

The single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced is politicians and other public figures using FUD in order to convince we the people to give them more power. Which they will then use to screw things up even more.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#129

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:21 PM UTC

Relevant: meltwater on sea ice in NW Greenland https://twitter.com/RasmusTonboe/status/1139504201615237120

Also this Australian briefing document on the existential risks of climate change: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/148cb0_b2c0c79dc4344b279bcf23...

I'm a bit of a doomer on this topic but 25 years arguing about it doesn't seem to have yielded much action.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#130

Post by graeme » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #109

Reedx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll probably do a collective face slap that we failed to invest in Nuclear technology (see the difference in Gen IV vs old tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor ). We had a solution for clean energy, but let fear override reason.

I'm not doubting you, this is just an honest repetition of what I've heard before. I thought that nuclear was also a GHG contributor because of the fossil fuels used in mining and refining it. Is this not the case? Like there is some cradle to grave GHG coefficient for different sources of power...

There's no law of nature that says mining equipment has to run on carbon. It could be done with electric equipment powered by nuclear.

Nuclear produces less presently and holds the key to producing none at all.